IHOP

I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with Mike Bickle's International House of Prayer ministry? Maybe some experiences with their events, training and internship programs, or perhaps you've attended one of their conferences?Thanks in advance for any input you could offer.In Christ,Ron

I have had many experiences with thier ministry out there. What do u need to know?

Hi Ron,I have been to IHOP a few times to see Art Katz who came to speak. It is a place that has prayer service going 24/7 as I understand it and is often filled with younger folks as well as older adults. I have not made it a practice to go out there (it is not far from me) as I have never felt the Lord leading me there. I know there are lots of stories and issues from the past and maybe even the present; but I have refrained from criticizing any organization with that level of dedication to intercession. This is a HUGE facility that takes up an entire strip mall, so its not just a hand full of folks gathering together (which I don't despise by any means either.) I suppose I am just saying that a lot of prayer and intercession is going up and that has to mean something. I have also encountered folk from this organization working the streets feeding and ministering to the homeless at the notorious Jurassic Park in KC. Some of their youth a very much on fire and like all 'new born' believers need discipled, wisdom, and direction. As far as Mike Bickle I am not sure. I know there are many people who feel that God truly led him to make preparation for revival. Some say he is false and others think he is just human. It depends on the prespective. I do like the emphasis of the movement early on: unwavering faith, extravagent giving to the poor, ongoing prayer, etc. Beyond that I would have to yield to others who have more intimate knowledge.God Bless,-Robert

What do u need to know?What areas of their ministry have you been involved with, overall impressions, likes and dislikes. Also, thanks for the input Robert.In Christ,Ron

I have some familiarity with Bickle. I am on the tail end of his Song of Songs study and intend to tackle his study on David afterwards. I believe his material on growing a passionate relationship with Christ, and realizings God's passion for us is second to none. I have a few dear friends, and the pastor of my conservative southern baptist church attend a couple of IHOP's conferences and have come back refreshed and ready to keep pursuing. They have another conference on "Intimacy with Jesus" in March that I would like to attend. Now, that said...I will say that some of the other stuff like prophecy and healing makes me a little uneasy...but honestly I think that comes from a lack of experience than anything else. Bickle has made some claims about his spiritual life as well that made my jaw drop. I won't go into specifics. I won't say I believe or disbelieve but am open minded as long as its inline with scripture. I will say that some of the "miraculous" things he talks about could easily become as common place as he puts them if I spent nearly as much time in prayer as he and IHOP does.

Anybody had experience with his [Revelation] study and teaching? I'd attended a conference where he taught about the book of Revelation as a guest speaker. I still have the study material but haven't spend time reading it thoroughly. He believes that the book of Revelation is not only for scholars but for every Christian to read and understand, esp. as end time draws close. (I happen to agree with this point.) He also said that he believe most of Revelation was written literally.

I have some of his studies on Revelation...but can't comment too much on it since I have only glanced over them. a couple things...He loves the book of Revelation as a view of worship in heaven...and he is definitely a post tribber.

I had the privilege of attending a "Harp and Bowl" conference a few years ago and it was life transforming! I have been a Christian most of my life and was never introduced to prayer and worship as I experienced it there. The emphasis on praying the Scriptures is awesome! Mike Bickle is a humble man with a passion for Jesus and knowing Him in intimacy as our Heavenly Bridegroom. The ministry has a strong emphasis on the Bridal paradigm. I strongly endorse and support this ministry.

I understand your concerns. A quick google on Bickle will bring up a few different sites that warn against the "Kansas City Prophets". The two biggest things against them is the following: 1)There have been a couple times where a prophetic word was spoken and it was wrong. 2) One of the main leaders became a homosexual. My commments..1) I think that with any type of spiritual gift human error can become involved. I believe that sometimes spiritual pride can take place and a person can use his own "reasonings" and decide that those reasonings are a word from God. Men are falliable. Also, I don't believe Bickle is involved in this type of prophecy. The prophecy spoken at IHOP is on the personal level and is more inline with the type of prophecy that is mentioned in 2 Corinthians. 2) This man is no longer associated with IHOP. Just because he became a homosexual late in life does not mean that the Lord did not use him for a period of time. You only need to read the record of the Kings of Israel to see that happens."For the first 20 years so and so did what is right in the sight of the Lord and he was blessed, but for the next 20 years he did what was evil in the sight of the Lord". I have found that most detractors of Bickle flat out deny the more "charistmatic" of the giftings. However, Bickle teaches that...Jesus is GodHe came to the earth in the form of a manHe died for our sinsHe rose againHe is coming againhe teaches that Jesus is the only way to heaven, he teaches the free gift of grace by faith and not works and that the faith is itself a gift from God. He teaches discipleship and the spiritual disciplines. The Bible says that a man cannot honestly say "Jesus is Lord" without having the Holy Spirit within him. I belong to a conservative southern baptist church and while I am not used to some of the things that occur there, I don't doubt the doctrine. I would encourage you to be a Berean and check for yourself. I hope you don't base your opinion on a cursory glance at Bickle's website or the websites of his own detractors. Pick up a couple of his books. I recommend "Passion for Jesus" and "After God's Own Heart: Becoming a David Generation". Both books deal with cultivating a passionate love for Jesus that extends out to other people.

Krispy Kritter...I am in agreement with you one hundred percent. I have been involved with these people and have come similiar experinces.1. Paul Cain is a false prophet2. Rick Joyner is false as well3. Bob Jones is a false prophetAs for Bickle and the rest of the House of Prayer people like Lou Engle, who is vehemently opposing abortion which I like, and some others all around the the USA. Because for those of you that don't know this movement is spreading very qucikly. They have houses of prayer everyhwere in the United States and even Cananda now. I can't speak too much about them because they have holy lives as far as I see, and they stick close to prayer and fasting, and the word of God.But for some reason these men Bickle and others take alot of advice from these false prophets. I don't know why, I sympathize with it because I have been involved in a relationship with another person who claimed to be prophetess but alot of weird stuff came out of her. Her husband was completely mesmerized by her supposed prophetic abilities, and for a while, I must admit I was too, until I realized the manipulation of it and broke away. So I hope that the fall of these men will eventually allow Bickle and others to escape from under their falseness.I believe like many others in the Body Of Christ that this prayer movement started really well but fell off somewhere. I think as soon as Paul Cain and Bob Jones got involved. Somewhere around there.It is hard to discern and it took me a while to come to this conclusion. I would recommend to listen to the 12 tape series called prophetic history of Kansas City House of Prayer. With this series you will have a better understanding where Mike is coming from as well as the House of Prayer movement.

Quote:"But for some reason these men Bickle and others take alot of advice from these false prophets. I don't know why..."If you figure that out, perhaps you'll come to more understanding of these things. Isn't it interesting that some of these men you speak of- such as Bickle and Engle, who you know have lived lives of prayer and, I am confident at least in Bickle's case, have diligently studied the Scriptures- have come to different conclusions? Don't you think they know of all the same issues that have come out in the public, and much much more, and yet they still believe what they do about prophets and the things of God. So they must understand the Scriptures and the things of God differently. I wonder how they see things. Don't you?

Very true...

Krispy - (interesting name btw - grin) I completely understand. Honestly, my knowledge about these men is very very limited so I can't speak too much about them. I can a bit more about Bickle. Mainly because I have had the chance to thoroughly study his material. Also, when doing a search on Bickle you will find that you really can't find anything negative about him. Anything negative you find about him is really directed towards Paul Cain, Bob Jones, etc. Looking over IHOP's website you don't even find a mention of these guys or their "ministries". I am doing something a little different this year....I guess you can call it a New Years resolution... I am devoting this whole next year to reading exclusively my Bible and not secondary teachers. Its going to be a little difficult for me.. I love to read and my shelves are filled with works by Lewis, Tozer, Willard, Ravenhill and the other "greats". I love them dearly. However, this year I am determined to gain wisdom and knowledge direct from the "Source". After the year is up I am going to read other resources...and I am very interested in what I am going to find....

I am doing something a little different this year....I guess you can call it a New Years resolution... I am devoting this whole next year to reading exclusively my Bible and not secondary teachers. Its going to be a little difficult for me.. Praise God. I'm not mature enough yet in my walk for this but I pray it happens. Here's a quote from John Wesley about six years before his conversion "In the year 1729, I began not only to read, but to study, the Bible, as the one, the only standard of truth, and the only model of pure religion."I've read a bit about the KC prophets but my knowledge is very limited. Sorry I deviated off-topic...

I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with Mike Bickle's International House of Prayer ministry? Maybe some experiences with their events, training and internship programs, or perhaps you've attended one of their conferences?Hi Ronexperience with? no.knowledge of ? some...The IHOP seems to be part of a network of similar minded groups (they have "co-hosted" some large events in the UK) and seems to have roots which tap into the Kansas City Prophets and that whole line of teaching. They seem to teach along the lines of the Manifested Sons of God/Latter Rain folk who believe that God is going to raise a generation of super-saints with super-elders, super-prophets etc. This is will the forerunner of worldwide domination by 'the church'. This kind of doctrine where new 'moves' are seen as part of an eschatological programme have been discussed here before. I will not go into them again.I am sure it is Art Katz' largeness of heart which gave him freedom to speak at their convention/conference rather than any spiritual affinity. The dilema is always that when high-profile preachers attend these things they inevitably make them more credible. I presume that each man will need to balance his sense of how useful he can be to the saints involved in the movement with the danger of making such movements more acceptable to others as a result.

I was recently troubled by some of the same issues as some of you are troubled about also. I was going to the December 2005 Onething Conference by IHOP. My youth group from home was going and they all seemed very excited so I made a trip from college to my hometown and then to Kansas City. I knew very little about the background of the ministry so I decided to do a little bit of investigating online. Like many of you, I came across all the negative perspectives about the "prophets" that Mike Bickle had been formerly associated with. I was very concerned about these testimonies from the apologetic websites and did not even want to go to the conference. I became captivated with all the negative testimonies about the ministry. I became so worried about it that I emailed the International House of Prayer and asked them if they could send me some information on their doctrine and have the courtesy of explaining to me why so many people claimed their ministry to be of heresy. I soon after received an email and it said:
Hi,

I appreciate your desire to know what our basic doctrines are, especially since reading negative things about us over the web. I believe you can get a document from our Intro to IHOP enrollment form online. I have copied it for you below.

Note regarding the heresy etc. I think the major resistance to Mike happened some years ago, but mainly had to do with the prophetic ministry that the Lord brought forth here. Many of the ‘apologetic’ websites have an anti-supernatural bias anyways. The not only crash us, but many of the charismatic/Pentecostal groups. If you don’t believe that God speaks today through supernatural means, than of course we would be considered cult, fringe or heretical to some. Also, many of the quotes are taken totally out of context and create an impression when reading it that we have strange beliefs.

I have looked at many of these sites over the years and since being under Mike’s teaching for quite some time now, I truly have never met a leader that had more desire to have biblical understanding than he. We are a prayer ministry that is wholly committed to the gaining understanding about God through prayer, fasting and bible study.

I would highly recommend that you listen to our prophetic history. It is a 12 CD series, where Mike gives the extraordinary accounts of supernatural activity from 1982 onwards. You can purchase this from our online bookstore.

I hope that this has been helpful to you.

Blessings,
Ed Boasso edboasso@ihop.org

I was slightly assured by this email and therefore I was convinced to go to the conference. I can now say that it was the best conference I have ever been to. The people there were so passionate for God and a revival seemed to be breaking forth. The reason I believe is because they fulfilled all the requirements of 2 Chronicles 7:14. They were humble, they prayed (night and day, sought his face (Jesus), and they had turned from their wicked ways. It was absolutely amazing. I have since still been captivated with this ministry and have began reading a lot of material by Mike Bickle and the staff at IHOP and I have found it incredible. Everything that I have come across so far has been backed up by God's Word, so i have not had any worries. It has also caused me to stretch my mind in God's word. I now want to move to Kansas City and go to college at their Forerunner School of Ministry but that is not God's will for my life therefore He has not released me to do this. My former youth pastor is leaving to go their next week though because God has impressed him to do so. So I hope this answers your question Philologos:

I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with Mike Bickle's International House of Prayer ministry? Maybe some experiences with their events, training and internship programs, or perhaps you've attended one of their conferences?

Conqueror wrote:
I can a bit more about Bickle. Mainly because I have had the chance to thoroughly study his material. Also, when doing a search on Bickle you will find that you really can't find anything negative about him. Anything negative you find about him is really directed towards Paul Cain, Bob Jones, etc. Looking over IHOP's website you don't even find a mention of these guys or their "ministries".

Hi Conqueror,

In your "thorough study of his materials", I wonder if you have stumbled across "Growing in the Prophetic"? It chronicles his journey from being a Minister who didn't believe in spiritual gifts at all, to how he came to be pastor of a church full of prophets, citing examples of two famous prophets' accurate prophecies, including one of them "prophecying" the details of the day that Mike would accept him as a member of his church. This guy's name was Bob Jones, and the other was Paul Cain. People who remember the announcement of Paul Cain's fall from grace, which was published on Rick Joyner's website in 2004, will remember that the Joyner approached Cain with two other men, one of which was Francis Frangepani (I think I spelled this wrong) and the other was (you guessed it) Mike Bickle.

"Growing in the Prophetic" is the only one of his books that I have read. At the time that I read it, the Brownesville "Revival" was in full swing, with Micheal L Browne, Stephen Hill and Lindel Cooley still there (incidently, Ps John Kilpatrick would often refer to asking Bickle what "the prophets were saying" and I believe that he was a regular guest speaker at the church). The church I attend lapped the whole thing up, and I was a huge promoter of third wave teachings, and was enamoured with all things prophetic. At the time, I enjoyed the book, as I did much of the teachings of Joyner, Kim Clement, Ruckins McKinley and Paul Schell, and when I first came here, I quoted alot out of these guys. Two and a half years on, I'd have to say that although I'd stop short of declaring these guys to be outright 'heretics', I would say that there is an amount of deception contained in their teachings. Personally I put it down to a carelessness about what they accept and believe.

"Growing in the Prophetic" also contains an appendix chapter on how to hold a "soaking meeting" (this was how they called the "Toronto Style" laughing phenomenon centered meetings), which I'd have to say is somewhat of a "smoking gun" when it comes to "deception warnings". As far as association with the "Kansas City Prophets", well considering that they don't exist, it's easy to distance oneself from them. No one refers to them as the "Kansas City Prophets" except their detractors. It's kind of like the "Word of Faith" and "Third Wave" movements. They all just refer to themselves as Christians. I have a friend who is slowly waking up to what they are about, and he has in the past thought that my objection to modern prophetic teachings is a denial that God speaks today. However, this isn't the case. There are many who embrace the "gift of prophecy" who object to their teachings. Among these are James Jacob Prasch and Art Katz, for example are both charismatic christians.

Art Katz has, in the past, published some material with Joyner's "Morning Star" publishing company. He mentioned Joyner by name when he was in Melbourne last year, saying that he gave Rick a copy of preaching about worship coming down from heaven, as opposed to being a tool to bring "down the glory of God" as if He was at our beckon call (he didn't clarify why he gave it to him, neither did he object to the chuckles coming from the congregation as he told the story). I could be wrong, but he seemed to imply that Morning Star sponsored the conference in Israel where Art preached his famous message on "Elijah", during which he was handed a note to say he could go for "4-5mins" (or was that [b]45[/b]mins). When he spoke of this event he mentioned that he walked out on the next speaker, who at the time was the "prophet of the hour", got up and "grand standed" an exhibition of "demonstrating God", saying that he felt that God was "conspicuously absent" despite the fancination of the audience, who didn't notice the difference.

On a postive note, Leonard Ravenhill referred to "Bishop Bickle" in his sermon [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=4374]Woe, Lo, Go! - Part 1[/url], [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=4375]Part 2[/url], [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=4376]Part3[/url], and [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=4377]Part 4[/url], preached at John Wimber's Vinyard church in Anaheim, when Bickle was still affiliated with Wimber's movement. Mind you, he also mentions Paul Cain and Michael L Browne as well. Many people view Ravenhill's affection to these personalities as an endorsment of their teachings. However, don't forget that many of these guys came up through Teen Challenge, which Ravenhill was heavily involved in, when ministering alongside David Wilkerson.

All I can say is that whether or not IHOP is a place to avoid or not is mostly subject to personal taste. In my observations, people who have a taste for a particular ministry will make excuses for their controversial stances and statements or they go down the road of "no one is perfect, you know" kind of logic (I have been guilty of all this myself). The key is repentance. I appreciate that IHOP have graciously replied to Seth's concerns, but notice that they only responded to the "many of the ‘apologetic’ websites" stating that they "have an anti-supernatural bias anyway". What about the minority that have more substantial objections? Ministries like Moriel and Berean Call. Most of these guys seem to ignore everyone but the "who's who in the zoo" brushing off lesser know detractors with character assassinating statements that belittle the validity of their comments (thoughts go to Rick Joyner's response to Andrew Strom's "Leaving the Prophetic Movement" article).

We need to be able to discern between the "Sacred and Profane". I tend to run with a philosophy that says, "Why go to a questionable source, when there is a more substantial source available?" Rick Joyner's "There Were Two Trees in the Garden", for example may be a good book, with great thoughts, but why not read Watchman Nee's "Normal Christian Life" which deals with the same themes, and yet takes them so much further, without the questionable elements.

May I suggest that before forming an opinion in this matter, that you listen to [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=3324]Holiness Or Blessing[/url] by Art Katz? For myself, the doorway to truth in this area was openned a crack after hearing Art's open hearted commentary on alot of the phenomenon that "Bickle and Co" are affiliated with. Also consider Art's [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=3360]What is Apostolic?[/url] regarding the process in which many of the modern "apostles" and "prophets" are established. You may wonder why I'm only refering to Art Katz in this matter. It is because few are capable of speaking on this issues while leaving emotionalism and speculation at the door.

God speed,