FREEDOM I felt the rush of air rising, catching my wings as I ascended higher and higher through the clouds. Suddenly the mountain top appeared, rising majestically, resting on a sea of grey.The mountain trembled and the thunder clapped and the "Rock," said, " go." I flapped my wings and soon the mountain was far behind as I flew over rivers and valley's and great forests of pine. Then I came across a great assembly of men gathered together on a bleak and desolate moor as the rain began to fall and the wind howled in anguished anticipation. Words of freedom echoed up to the sky above. Will a man die for freedom? How many men have spilled their blood and hastened their souls to eternal damnation for that which is not even a shadow. And the men fought and died not knowing that it is not in the winning or the losing, neither can that which they seek be attained by knife or sword.I flapped my wings and suddenly the mists of time rolled back, back, back unto the dawning of a different age. Below me, another assembly of men, angry men. These men were not fighting for freedom, they were seeking to destroy it. They shouted, "crucify Him, crucify Him," and freedom hung in the balance. And all of hells fury cheered as the sky grew dark and the lightening flashed and the earth stood still in utter dismay. Would the sun ever rise in the sky again, or had darkness won the day?Then after three days and three nights, from a sea of darkness and gloom, rose majestically, a pure white standard that shattered the darkness forever.Now the white flag signifies surrender, when we surrender our life's to Jesus, we gain victory from the jaws of defeat and the darkness is destroyed forever.Jesus is our victory, in Jesus our Lord we find true Freedom. The Scriptures say that He who the Son sets free is free indeed. This majestic freedom rises high above all earthly gained freedom. If men could attain freedom then Christ died in vain.How free was our brother the Apostle Paul when he languished in the deep? What about Peter and John as the lashes tore the skin from their back? What about our brother Stephen as the cruel stones destroyed his earthly body? I say that they were as free as the birds in the sky, no, so much freer than they. For the birds are as free as the sky in which they fly, our freedom ascends to the very throne of the Almighty God.In the deepest darkest dungeons, chained to the walls, we are the light that penetrates and destroys the darkness, we are the salt of the earth. If true freedom could be granted or taken away by men then it would not be the freedom of Calvary. The gentiles busy themselves with earthly things, buying and selling, gaining and losing and for needs sakes we too must walk amongst them. And yet, we are a brotherhood, a Royal Priesthood sent to shine that light of Calvary's freedom into every corner of the earth.We are called to be a counter culture, not a sub-culture. The true Christian is in the world but not of it. The fact is that our citizenship is not of this world. Whether God chooses us to be born into Communist China, or Capitalist America, maybe Socialist Germany, it matters not. Perhaps we will be born under a monarchy, perhaps under democracy, maybe dictatorship, again, it is of little consequence. For we are not citizens of the world, we are indeed, ambassadors. We represent a kingdom that is, yet is not, yet is still to come. As representatives, we will live peaceably and quietly wherever we are sent. To become embroiled in the politics of wherever we are sent is to depart from our mission and is a tactic of the enemy. For we do not battle against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, our weapons are not the weapons of the world for we fight the darkness with our light. We overcome evil with love, the love of Christ which is the power of the universe. If we are engaged in this war, the unseen war, then to entangle ourselves with the affairs of this world is to be AWOL(absent without official leave)We are soldiers in the army of the Lord. The war that we are engaged in never ends, there can be no peace until our Lord returns with a Trump, with a shout of Triumph. Until then, let us go about the business of Him who sent us.As Ambassadors, we represent Him and His Word, not human philosophy. Just as the early church was not involved in wars, nor politics, then neither should we. We must be like the early church, speaking boldly and without fear, the Truth in love. Many voices would engage the priesthood in "fighting for our rights." As Christians we are not shackled by rights. For rights are given and rights are taken away, yet our freedom cannot be touched.We will take the injury and go the extra mile with our enemies. If we are fired from our jobs for mentioning His name, or carrying the Word, then let us glorify in Him that we are counted worthy to suffer for His names sake. Let shame fall upon those who reproach because we love them when they despise us and treat us cruelly and unfairly. What greater cruelty that the Son of God hanging on a tree? And yet here is our perfect example , "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." Peter sought to take measures against this and was severely rebuked. Peter would even be willing to die to save the life of Jesus and drew the sword and attacked. Yet Jesus had a different way. Peter was not so willing to die for a Lord that was about to be mocked, tortured humiliated and killed. We are so willing to fight for our rights, our dignity, our heritage, our culture, our way of life, our morals, and yet we are not willing to die to the flesh in humility.We are not willing to embrace injustice, being wronged, unfair treatment. We give as good as we get, if our enemy takes us to court, then we take him to court. As Christians, we are called to follow the laws of the land, unless they compel us to violate Scripture. When the Holy Spirit wrote these teachings through our brother Paul, the Emperor of the time was Nero. Nero would dip our brothers and sisters in oil and suspend them upside down and set them ablaze to light up his dinner parties at night. Do you suffer that kind of injustice? Is your injustice worse than that? Should the Christians of that day formed an army or worked feverishly in the political realm to overthrow him? Not at all, and they did not. They engaged the enemy on the Spiritual level. Men who are not Spiritual will detest this view. For ultimately men of the world want to determine their own fate.The Royal Priest does not concern himself with this. For his fate is in the hands of God. The steps of a righteous man are ordered of God, the man in rebellion will order his own steps and make up his own rules and will ultimately violate Scripture to accommodate his own will. Let each Royal Priest be bearers of the light, let us set aside all that hinders us from following Him and leading others to Him. Let us bask in the revelation and realiztion of our Freedom. When we know Jesus , the politics of this world will grow strangely dim in the light of His glory and grace. Fight the good fight of faith and in all things love your God, your nieghbor and your enemies. ...In the beauty of Holiness.........Frank
You will die for your country, but will you die for Christ?
You will die for your country, but will you die for Christ?I have already died with Him. Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.In Christ: Phillip
Hi PhillipAt what point did the apostle Peter die?. This post would be for people who are struggling with the sin nature, but I am glad that you have no struggle :)My spirit is bought and paid for and covered by the blood of Jesus, my body too will be raised in incorruption. I still take up my cross every day, and hopefully I am being molded into His image. But I do not walk as though I had already aprehended, I still run the race. So, again this post would be for people who are still running the race, not for those who claim to have finished it..........Frank
Brother Frank wrote: If true freedom could be granted or taken away by men then it would not be the freedom of Calvary. The gentiles busy themselves with earthly things, buying and selling, gaining and losing and for needs sakes we too must walk amongst them. And yet, we are a brotherhood, a Royal Priesthood sent to shine that light of Calvary's freedom into every corner of the earth.We are called to be a counter culture, not a sub-culture.This freedom that eminates from His throne begins when we become bond-slaves of Christ. For this, the word of God must dwell richly in the lives of those who choose to live by the word of God. It is this choice the world seeks to influence. The vain philosophies of men and their profession of freedom ensnares and traps the prey of the roaring lion. Keep preachin brother.God BlessJeff
Frank,Quote:Hi PhillipAt what point did the apostle Peter die?. This post would be for people who are struggling with the sin nature, but I am glad that you have no struggle :)My spirit is bought and paid for and covered by the blood of Jesus, my body too will be raised in incorruption. I still take up my cross every day, and hopefully I am being molded into His image. But I do not walk as though I had already aprehended, I still run the race. So, again this post would be for people who are still running the race, not for those who claim to have finished it..........FrankIt is not I that is perfect it is the Christ in me that is perfect. 2 Timothy 2:8-11 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:If it is that Christ not live in me then I am lost and deserve hell and damnation. If we be in Christ, then who is the one that The Father sees in our lives? It must be Christ or The Father would have nothing to do with us. It is no longer we who live but Christ who lives in us.If we think of ourselves of carrying our own cross, I can not and Christ could not carry His own Cross either. If you can take up your own cross and carry it by yourself I say more power to you, for perfection is not in the Law, the Law only makes you righteous in self, not perfection in Christ Jesus. Jesus kept the Law perfect but it was not the Law He kept that made Him pleasing to the Father, He only kept the Law to fulfill it. The Law cannot save anyone, even if we could keep it, it would not make us son's of God with the nature of God born again in us by the Son that is now the believers life.Again, Romans 6:10-11 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.It is the perfection of the Christ that is in men and is now my life that I seek. I only want to know Him more and more as the Holy Spirit brings forth in me the Life of Jesus Christ. Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us. Christ in us and us in Christ is the only Cross that will make us capable of following Him. Christ is our only Glory and the Hope thereof. Colossians 1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:This is our perfection, Christ Jesus, not what we do to become, but who we are and becoming.Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Let us trust that The Christ In us will become our understanding and our life by who we are not what we do. This is why God the Father was so pleased in His Son, not by what He did but by Who He was, and this is why He only learned to obey by the things He suffered. Christ knew exactly why He was Here. Hbr 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered;We are perfect, not by what we do, but because of who we are in Christ. 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His Seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:21-24 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and he in Him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us. Like Paul, I have not attained perfection but the Christ in me has, and we are attaining it, and by this I press on toward the upward calling of God in Christ Jesus, in considering that Jesus Christ is my righteousness and has been made by the Father all that I need to finish the course in this upward calling. 1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in His presence. But of Him (The Father)are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.In Christ my Glory: Phillip
This is a hard question. After all, we are called to give our lives for the sake of others, and the people of our nation would included "others". I don't see in scripture where anyone was praised for dying for Caesar's kingdom. In fact God tore it down. Meanwhile, a lot of people died for the sake of members of Caesar's empire. The difference is: are we willing to risk our lives in order to preserve an earthly kingdom, or an eternal kingdom. We can be misled when we mix up these kingdoms. No earthly kindgom/institution - even church is not the same as God's eternal kingdom. I think that our true motive will determine our choices. We die for the kingdom we value. I realize that you are not merely talking about a physical death, but a death of self, personal ambition, egocenteredness, self-righteousness, vindiction, etc. That is an ongoing death process, but I think it applies also. Diane
Diane writes....I realize that you are not merely talking about a physical death, but a death of self, personal ambition, egocenteredness, self-righteousness, vindiction, etc. That is an ongoing death process, but I think it applies also. Thats exactly what I was talking about Diane!!As to Phillips rely, I would say that I agree with Phillip and would not argue that when God the Father looks at us, He see's Jesus. I understand that theologically and spiritually. My piece was about what does the world see when it looks at Phillip. What does your wife see, what does your children see, what about your family and co-workers. Do they see Jesus when they look at you. Do you walk in perfection before them? Is there any room for improvement?Its the room for improvement that is the dying daily. May we all grow, in the eyes of the watching world, more like Jesus........In the beauty of Holiness...........Frank
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way. 1Cr 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 1Cr 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. Do you see me? Do you see what other people see in me? If you do then please judge me and If it agrees with Christ I will do my best by the power of the resurrection of the Christ in me to change it. I must believe that the Christ in me is the only one that can change me, I must want to change because of Him that died for me and gave Himself for me. Others see Christ in me and they say I am crazy, a fanatic, a Jesus freak, oh no not one of those, This does not concern me for the world cannot judge me, only the Christ in me has the right to do that. Then even then He did not come to judge me, He came to save me by His birth of Himself by the Father with His Seed that makes me a son of God, and fellow heir with Jesus Christ Himself to the Kingdom of God that Christ has prepared for me. I have no wife, she ran off with a childhood sweetheart after 23 years of marriage. I have much to atone for and much to learn but the Christ in me is still in me and He will never leave me. Nothing can separate me from the love of God in Christ Jesus. Would you like to meet me, and maybe you could see the Christ in me as we are supposed to see all brothers and sisters by the Christ in them. I could not see Christ in you except for the Christ in me. May we all treat each other as we would Christ, for that is who we really are isn't it. Christ in you the Hope of Glory.Jhn 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. Jhn 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. Jhn 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.I am a child of God and He is the one that chastens me to righteousness, not man. Job 36:10 He openeth also their ear to discipline, and commandeth that they return from iniquity.This is an ongoing life process, for our lives are in Christ Jesus. In Christ: Phillip
Reading through this thread brought to mind something I read from Watchman Nee's book The Normal Christian Life. I have quoted it below...Our crucifixion can never be made effective by will or by effort, but only be accepting what the Lord Jesus did on the Cross. Our eyes must be opened to see the finished work of Calvary. Some of you, prior to your salvation, may have tried to save yourselves. You read the Bible, prayed, went to Church, gave alms. Then one day your eyes were opened and you saw that a full salvation had already been provided for you on the Cross. You just accepted that and thanked God, and peace and joy flowed into your heart. Now salvation and sanctification are on exactly the same basis. You receive deliverance from sin in the same way as you receive forgiveness of sins.For God’s way of deliverance is altogether different from man’s way. Man’s way is to try to suppress sin by seeking to overcome it; God’s way is to remove the sinner. Many Christians mourn over their weakness, thinking that if only they were stronger all would be well. The idea that, because failure to lead a holy life is due to our impotence, something more is therefore demanded of us, leads naturally to this false conception of the way of deliverance. If we are preoccupied with the power of sin and with our inability to meet it, then we naturally conclude that to gain the victory over sin we must have more power. ‘If only I were stronger’, we say, ‘I could overcome my violent outbursts of temper’, and so we plead with the Lord to strengthen us that we may exercise more self-control.But this is altogether wrong; this is not Christianity. God’s means of delivering us from sin is not by making us stronger and stronger, but by making us weaker and weaker. That is surely rather a peculiar way of victory, you say; but it is the Divine way. God sets us free from the dominion of sin, not by strengthening our old man but by crucifying him; not by helping him to do anything but by removing him from the scene of action.For years, maybe, you have tried fruitlessly to exercise control over yourself, and perhaps this is still your experience; but when once you see the truth you will recognize that you are indeed powerless to do anything, but that in setting you aside altogether God has done it all. Such a revelation brings human self-effort to an end.
Hi GuysI think the last two posts are missing the point, or peraps I am not clear in what I am saying. I fully accept that I am truly powerless to change anything outside of the power of the Lord. I am a big fan of Absolute Surrender by Andrew Murray. This is not the point at all. We are not caricitures, we are real people. We are not "Stepford Christians," coming of an assmembly line. We are all different and God uses us. Poeple are drawn to Christ in us, and despite what Phillip writes, poeple of the world can identify the light of Christ in us. Some are repelled, some are drawn in, not by us being able to explain theology or quoting scripture verbatum, but simply by the love of Jesus, Jesus in us. There is a saying , "People do not care how much you know until they know how much you care." Phillip writes.............Would you like to meet me, and maybe you could see the Christ in me as we are supposed to see all brothers and sisters by the Christ in them. I could not see Christ in you except for the Christ in me. May we all treat each other as we would Christ, for that is who we really are isn't it. Christ in you the Hope of Glory.No, we are not Christ, and yes people of the world can know if Christ is in us. If we would step out of the way(dying to our flesh) and let Christ come forward then we may agree on that Phillip. But in all your quotes and theological prowess, I do not feel the love. Now, I understand that this medium can be very misleading, and I could be very wrong. But, for instance, when I asked if, when people look at you, as opposed to God, did they see Jesus, that was an homest question. I do not know you at all, perhaps people do see Jesus when they look at you, only you would know that for I certainly have no idea. We are called to love the world, and no human love will do, we have to be empowered to love the world through Jesus. Now, we are also called to be a witness to the world, so it is important what people see, we represent and are ambassadors for the Lord. Dying to ones flesh is not mutually exclusive to total surrender, it is one and the same. I think you guys may be splitting hairs and coming up with two theories. In any event, when the world looks at us and does not see Jesus, then we do Him and the world a dis-service. So, once again, I agree totally that one can do nothing without Him, and that when God looks at us He sees Jesus, but He also loves us as individual children, it is a real love and not a technical , theological equation. This is no mere formula, it is real love, and He loves us, flaws and all. In the beauty of Holiness............Frank
Did I say I was Christ? I think not, but I am a Christ one by the birthing. Colossians 1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ ((in)) you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect ((in)) Christ Jesus: This is the Love of the Father and the Love Jesus Christ wants flowing from His Children to the World, but most of all God wants children who love Him first, that is why He sent Christ to die for each one that believes that this Love of Christ might be in each one. Without Christ in me I cannot love God or anyone else the Way God in Christ love us and gave His only begotten Son that we might have life and Love in Christ Jesus our Lord.The little word in: en en en: Strongs,a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest.I am a Christ One, Christian, Christ in me and me in Christ, a new creature, by the prayer of Christ Himself.Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.Jhn 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare [it]: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.We are dead to sin in spirit, how else could Christ be born again in our spirit. Our old man the flesh is learning the Mind of Christ in our soul, since we already have the Mind of Christ in spirit, the Teacher Comforter is renewing our mind to that Mind that is already in us by the birthing.John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.Born of water: Jhn 4:11 The woman saith unto Him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. Which has never flowed before.Born of Spirit: Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His (Christ) Seed (Devine Incorruptable Seed) remaineth in him: and He cannot sin, because he is born of God.1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth Him that begat loveth Him also that is begotten of Him. Are we born of God by the only begotten?Our life in the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven to teach us this Gospel which angels desire to see into. By the The other Comforter, Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;Who prayed? Was it answered?Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My Name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.I am not the Christ, but I am of Christ and in Christ and Christ in me. The weaker I become the more He becomes and the more He will come forth as Phillip and the more Phillip will be as Christ, but still Phillip with no one else like me, with my personality and what God intended me to be to Him as my Father, a son as different as all the sands of the sea, but one in Christ by His Nature of God My Father. I can not love without Christ in me. God wanted son's that love Him and only His Only Begotten Son can Love Him with a Love that He can accept. The Love that is Christ in us is the only Love that our Father can receive and until resurrection morning with bodies like Christ, With the Mind of Christ, And The Spirit of Christ are we acceptable to the Father. That is why Christ will present us all that are born again to the Father because He Loved so deeply and died and gave Himself just so He could present Loving children to His Father. In Christ: Phillip
Phillip writes.........The Love that is Christ in us is the only Love that our Father can receive and until resurrection morning with bodies like Christ, With the Mind of Christ, And The Spirit of Christ are we acceptable to the Father. That is why Christ will present us all that are born again to the Father because He Loved so deeply and died and gave Himself just so He could present Loving children to His Father. I am sorry Phillip, I just dont feel like I am talking to a real person. You have a lot of theology, but the statement that you made above is very telling. I know my Heavenly Father, and He knows me. I come boldy, trembling with love and awe before His throne, now. Why?Because He invited me to, not after I die, right now. I love Him, and He loves me. How can I come before the throne?Because Jesus, the waymaker, made a way for me where there was no way. You have something very mixed up. You do not belive that your love is acceptable to your heavenly Father, I have no idea why you do not. You have positional sanctification all mixed up with a true, genuine , loving relationship , right now. Please do not reply to me with systematic theology, just talk to me man. One real person to another. Scriptures were not meant to be hidden behind.You seem to have some kind of self-dislike which is not healthy. To think that Your heavenly Father cannot recieve your love while you are on this earth is profoundly sad Phillip and certainly not Biblical. Give me your best scripture that backs up that point Phillip, just one, not a dozen conveluted and strung together to make your point. Let me see just a little bit of your heart, share your heart with me brother.In the beauty of Holiness........Frank
Romans 7:23-25 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.I want to love God but He knew I could not. He before the foundation of the world knew this and He predestinated me to be in Christ Jesus that I might have the capacity and ability by the Nature of God Himself in Christ Jesus that He has put in me. Now I can Love God and He can accept it because Christ is my sanctification. I just could not quite reach My Father on my own merits even though I knew I was a saved believer. When I realized because of Christ in me that I was completely acceptable to our Father and could rejoice know, know that God was truly My Father and I could crawl up in His lap and put my head on His shoulder and just Cry because He loved me and I could love Him with the Love of God which I so desperately wanted. He accepted me unconditionally because of what Jesus Had done on the Cross. The Love of Christ in me because of His position as Son making me a son allow me the same baptism into His suffering and also His Glory before the Father. I am dead to sin by Christ and I am alive unto God by Christ. The love I have for God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit now is so much greater and deeper that I ever thought possible while still being a being on this earth. The love I have for them because He love me first is also giving me the ability to love other of my brethren and those who need Christ. I can't say this is the way for every person but it had to be this way for me. I love my Father and am proud to be a son. I love you and am proud to be your brother. Sometimes there is so much love I feel like I will burst and it keeps getting better and better with my daily walk in the One I love as, through, with my Lord and Savior and Friend and Brother and fellow Heir to the Father's House, Jesus Christ, my All in All.In Christ: Phillip
From where I sit, you two aren't far apart. You're debating over semantics, when you fundamentally agree.appolus: If he's in that state, all the better! Your teaching doesn't have to be for all, understandably some who you speak to, in a forum such as this, will be spiritually mature. You don't necessarily need to convert him, or aid him, noble as your aim may be.I'm not saying he's perfect, nor that he's above reproach, nor fully mature, but that it may not be your place to work on him.Christinyou: If you're at that point, great! If you can echo Pauls words in Galations 2:20 (be careful that you do not take that as doctrine - it was Paul speaking of himself nothing more), if you can echo that, then great for you. However, there are many who live and work and go to churches, engage in ministry, but aren't taking up their cross, that aren't crucified to the world.They've been cleaned, they been saved, but the world still fascinates them and hold them enthralled. It is to them that this article is written, as far as I can discern. You do not need to refute the article if you are crucified to the world, but rejoice in it, hoping that more people will be compelled to do so.I hope and pray this has cleared some things up, and we can move on together in single mind and purpose.- Matt
After learning about William Tyndale,that's the way I want to go.Someone once said anything not worth dying for is not worth living for.
Hi PhillipKeep crawling up into his arms man, its the only place to be. I love you brother..........FrankBe cool Matt, Holy Spirit is working His thing :)
My reason for posting the Nee quote was because I felt it complemented what you were both saying.The original post is a great reminder of the need to die to the flesh daily, we all need that encouragement. But it's also important to remember that the method of deliverance is through weakness.God bless you both,Ron
You will die for your country, but will you die for Christ?Did Christ ever ask us to die for him other than die to the flesh?
Did Christ ever ask us to die for him other than die to the flesh? Hebrews 11:37 ... they were stoned, sawed in two.... Christ did say that it was inevitable for those who chose to live for him. But choosing to die is not a virtue in itself: "If I... surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing." 1 Cor. 13:3Diane
Amen DianeIt is possible that many of us will be called to die for our Lord. I think of the little girl in Columbine who refused to deny Jesus. Actually she is typical of our brothers and sisters down through the ages. It is modern day Christianity that is not typical. As Many of you probably know, the Greek for Martyr and witness is the same.........Frank
I will never die. Unless the rapture comes I will be able to get rid of this body of flesh, but we are promised we will never die. Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?The real I was crucified on the Cross with Christ was when He took the sin of the World in the cup in the garden. Every sin that ever was or is or will be was in that cup, that means that all my sins were in that cup and when He died at that moment when that Glorious Head fell on dead shoulders all sin was dead or His death meant nothing. The reason sin is still in the world is this world will not believe in Jesus Christ and what He did with sin. Paul believed it and he said, "Galatians 2:19-20 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."The law killed me when the fulfillment of the Law died on the Cross. We died with Him because of sin. That is why it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me. A new creature, never before the Cross has such a creature ever existed. A new life in Christ. 1 John 5:10-12 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. Death because they won't believe.If we are born again of water and the Spirit, that is the Spirit of Christ in us the Hope of Glory, then because of Him that is in us before the Father any sins of the flesh are already taken care of and when it is revealed to when we confess them God is faithful and Just because of Jesus Christ on the Cross to forgive us and not only that but the Christ in us and the blood He shed will cleanse us from all unrighteousness.We have Christ. 1 John 5:18-20 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.That is why when we confess or agree with God that what He wants us to change is a sin, then we learn obedience by the things we suffer, but the cleansing is still there because of the Christ that is in us.1 John 1:9-10 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and his word is not in us. I was a sinner and if I say I deserve salvation because I am a good person we make Him a Liar.That is why we can have fellowship with Him and one another. 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin. This is what we have to renew our mind to, that is the mind of Christ that brings us to God and cleanses us from all sin and keeps on cleansing until that day.We have already died with Christ and we will never have to die again. 2Cr 5:8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Which is the promise of gain in Christ.Phl 1:21 For to me to live [is] Christ, and to die [is] gain. Whether we live or die does not matter we are the Lords. Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. A done deal because we believed and He is faithful and cannot deny Himself.IN Christ: Phillip
Hi Christinyou...!I will never die. Unless the rapture comes I will be able to get rid of this body of flesh, but we are promised we will never die. Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?Do you mean that you will not die spiritually or in a physical sense? While in high school, there was a dishwasher who worked at the restaurant I was employed with. He was very active in his small, rural church. He asked if he could accompany my family to church one Sunday. After the service, he told me that, although he enjoyed the message, he didn't like the Pastor's "focus on death." He explained that he was "never going to die." I assumed that he meant that he believed that the Lord's return was at hand. However, he explained that the Lord promises real believers that they will "overcome death." It was very interesting because I had never heard such a doctrine before. Of course, I do not believe this. "To live is Christ," Paul reasoned, "...and to die is gain." Interestingly, my friend passed out during a prank at work one night (a broken stove was turned on by the circuit breaker one night, which resulted in a loud "POP" while he was in training to become a cook). A few days later, he purchased a life insurance policy (with his mother as the sole beneficiary). Do you believe that your body will never physically die? I apologize if I was over analyzing your comments. :-) On a side note, he was also a "holy roller." I have always heard the term as a slur referred to all believers that are serious about their faith. However, my friend told me that they literally roll down the center isle during church services when they meet together. After he told me this, I asked him if he also "picked up serpents." He looked at me with a straight face and said, "I don't have that much faith." :-P
Its hard to tell what Phillip is referring to because he mixes up his metaphors. We are all going to die physicaly unless Jesus comes back. Its that simple. And the reason? Our corrupt flesh. There is no doubt that the old man died, he was crucified on the cross and Jesus died for our sins. Yet, we still deal with the sin-nature. That is why I sin and Phillip sins. As for the man who rolls down the aisle and believes he is not going to die, well that speaks for itself and is sad. Fear and discontentment do much damage. This man is afraid of death, and well he might be. He rolls down the ailse because Christianity is not and was not ever enough for him. There always has to be more and these people continually search for the outlandish because manna to them is boring and their lack of contentment with Calvary and the glorious presense of God will be their un-doing....................Frank
brethrenwhat is there to fear in death that we don't desire it for our savior? i'm convinced that a fear of death comes from an uncertainty of what will become of us when we die or from the knowledge that we have not made our peace with God. If Christ had to die for us, what right have we to our own lives? None, we are bought lock, stock and barrell by Him for His purposes. What right have we to think that we should be exempt from suffering and/or martyrdom if Christ wasn't? i hear much talk of being raptured before anything crazy happens and the more i hear of it the more i am convinced that this notion is a lie of the devil. this lie is to lull us into a false sense of security where we just roll along and sit on our butts. don't get me wrong i know there will be a rapture or perhaps even more than one even but the idea that most or all Christians will escape persecution is a lie. it seems to me the Lord will take a few mature ones at first and leave the majority to come to a full ripeness in Him before they can be caught up in the heavens. Thus it seems to me that a lot of people after having seen some raptured and they themselves left behind for a time will become disillusioned with the Faith and may well renounce it and i think this is a part of the great falling away. let's not kid ourselves and think that we're not going to escape persecution because that's not happenning. i think it should be a deep desire in us all to suffer and die for the Faith if the Lord calls us to it. i can think of a no more fitting tribute to the One who died for us than for us to die in His service. to be frank, when the Lord called me, even before He showed me what my work for Him would be, He made it plain there would be suffering and martyrdom for me in this work. of course that was a whole lot to swallow and so i told Him "Lord, your idea stinks" He didn't respond but in time i came to realize that for those that have gone before and even now are being persecuted and martyred, that the Lord didn't require such sacrifice of their own strength. i mean who in their right mind would allow anyone to beat them up or kill them. the wisdom of the world is to fight back. the wisdom of heaven is to let them go ahead, after all that is the worst the enemy can do to us and if that doesn't shake us then satan really has NO power over us. The apostles, steven (who wasn't an apostle) and all the other saints down through the ages who were killed, never resisted as far as i know, they went willingly. This was not something they did in their right mind but this was an outworking of the Lord's Holy Spirit by which they could do these things. the Lord will be whatever courage, endurance, strength and whatever else is required of us in His service, hence the idea of having Christ live in us to achieve such. i think it would be awesome to be raptured, since i won't be, well at least not caught up in the clouds perhaps, i miss out on that exprience. however having realized that the Lord's Spirit will be the one to hold me up in the trials that are ahead i take comfort in that. at the end of it all the Lord will grant me the martyr's crown along with a lot of others out there. there's a good bunch of people in that crew, Peter, Paul Steven, James etc so i'll be in good company :-D i've been brought to a point where i desire this crown, not in some sadomasochistic way but in the Spirit and by the Spirit of God because it is the culmination of what work the Lord has for me and heralds the beginning of eternity in His bosom with all of you and the rest of the fam... can't beat that...
What did Jesus do to the fig tree? Mark 11:11-14 And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve. And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry: And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.The Fig Tree is Jerusalem and the Temple therein. "No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it."Then what did Jesus do to the Temple? The same as He did to the temple. Mark 11:13-15 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it. And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;From that day to this the temple is no longer. When you look at where the temple use to stand what do you see? The Dome of the Rock.We are not the temple of God with Christ therein and also the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit and God the Father. Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.All Three are in God's Temple, and who are we?1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?1Cr 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.If we are Holy temples then what does this clay pot that houses this temple have to do with Life. Absolutely nothing, except just like the Church building, when no one is in it The Presence of God is not there, but the first Christian that walks through the door bring God into the structure of wood, hay or stubble, which is a picture of how they used to build with bricks and wood. Our foundation is on the Rock That is in us. Matthew 18:18-20 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.We are the Temple of God wherein dwell Christ Himself. What can death be except an exchange of a corruptible clay pot that has been quickened to contain the Life of God Himself, for a suitable Temple which is just like Christ and His Glorious Temple, 1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. Romans 6 explains all this if further study is needed. Romans 6:1-23 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.In Christ: Phillip
I agree Ironman, the pre-tribulation rapture is nothing more than escapism.....Frank
Frank, Is this an attempt to start a tangent thread from an old one? I'm new so I don't know the history of any discussions concerning the 'rapture.'Just wondering,Jeff
Hi JeffI was just replying to an old reply. I do like the subject and believe that in our lifetime we could possibly face the possibility that "if it were possible, even the elect will be deceived." I am obviously not a pre-tribber and people who are I just think it goes along with easy-believism, prosperity preaching and carnal Christianity."..........Frank
Hi Frank,Thanks for the reply. I would love to discuss the subject some time but if we were the only ones talking it would end up being mostly agreeing.Love in Christ,Jeff
Who has power to lay down his own life?
HiThat a reasonably vague question, do you have a specific question that can be answered?.................Frank
Hi Frank!You are right, the question is vague. It may be that Loveslave is trying to point out that only Jesus has the 'authority' to choose how, when, and where to die.I see the point of this thread as being, "What are you willing to die for?" What is the highest priority in our value system? Is it patriotism, nationalism, liberty, or Jeus? Laying down ones life, which I see as sacrificing personal rights and choices rather than physical death, is enjoined upon the 'talmidim' of Jesus for their 'friends.'John 15:12-1312 This is my commandment, that ye love one another, even as I have loved you.13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. ASVThe 'ultimate sacrifice,' as it is sometimes referred to, is sometimes easier than laying aside personal goal, agendas, pleasures, comforts, dreams, and preferrences for the sake of another individual. After all physical death is a one time thing and ushers us into the glory of God. As some would say "Go ahead, make my day!" But being a living sacrifice is a slow death, a death of the flesh, and it is not pleasant for anyone.I don't know if this is what Loveslave was thinking but it is what came into my spirit.Lots of love,Jeff
Hi appolous...I was just replying to an old reply. I do like the subject and believe that in our lifetime we could possibly face the possibility that "if it were possible, even the elect will be deceived." I am obviously not a pre-tribber and people who are I just think it goes along with easy-believism, prosperity preaching and carnal Christianity."..........FrankIn fact, there are many believers out there that are pre-trib, yet do not embrace any form of easy-believism, prosperity preaching, or carnal Christianity. Currently, I am inclined to find much credibility to the notion of a "Pre-Trib Rapture." To me, a "Pre-Trib Rapture" does not mean that I will escape all forms of suffering or persecution here on Earth. People in many nations are suffering immensely for their faith. A "Pre-Trib" Rapture seems to indicate that the Church will escape the "wrath of God" (or a unified trial or temptation) that will collectively fall upon all the world.I also find it difficult to interpret the Scriptures with any ultimate finality concerning this issue. There are many who strongly make statements about the certainty of such positions (pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib, etc...). While I am currently inclined to believe in a pre-trib Rapture, it doesn't mean that I am not prepared or willing to endure the time of Tribulation. Thus, the more important question to me is as follows: Is there anything that would cause you to neglect your relationship with the Lord? If the most important thing in your life is a real relationship with Christ -- then you would endure all things (both tribulation and success) without it affecting your relationship. Indeed, there are individuals that neglect Christ due to an unwillingness to seek Him during times of physical or financial well-being. But remember, "wealth" is a interpretive term. For instance, a middle-class individual in some Western Nations would be considered wealthy in many others. The fact that you own a house, a car, or even a computer might be a sign of "wealth" in most third-world nations. There is alot to be learned in both Matthew 6:25-34 -- as well as Philippians 4:11-13.Matthew 6:25-34"Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."Philippians 4:11-13"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."I have seen individuals almost become prideful because of "prosperity," but also some because of their supposed "poverty." I believe that in all things, as Paul stated, we should be content. Paul knew how to be "abased" (to be in need) and how to "abound" (to have plenty). This same message can carry into our beliefs about end-time prophecy. Would you lose your relationship with Christ because of the intense suffering that will forced upon believers by this world? Would you be so easily deceived as to believe false signs and lying wonders? I like what Keith Green once said, "Pray for pre-trib, but prepare for post-trib." How do you do this? Believers must do their best to be content with their relationship with Christ through all circumstances (Philippians 4:11) -- as well as willing to test everything (I Thessalonians 5:21). To me, it is much more important to be willingly ready at all times -- then to argue about interpretations of prophecy Scripture. Maranatha! :-)
Hi JeffI think you have captured the spirit of the article. Peter proved this point when we see he was willing to physically die in the garden, when he lopped of the servants ear, but he was not willing to surrender and suffer humiliation and this is when he denied Jesus. So, we are either denying the flesh or denying Jesus, no middle ground seems to exist.............Frank
This has turned into a really great topic and thread and bringing these things to our minds to contemplate is a great favor done.Jeff and Chris have come to where many have in Church History, with their determination, despite "which-trib" was believed. If Frank and I are not pre-trib, yet we all are setting our face as a flint to get through as the first Church did and so on, until today in some countries now going through loving not their life's unto death, that has been the fruit of these discussions. More "fortifiers".Isa 50:7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.
Hey Chris I like your perspective. Having been taught pre-trib when I was young and mostly (not all) of what I saw was an unwillingness to suffer for Christ. Later as I encountered post-tribbers I saw some who thought that they would wait for the tribulation to "iron out the wrinkles." I also have been preparing (spiritually not as much materially) to go through all kinds of suffering but will not complain if Jesus takes me out early.Although the NLT may not be the most accurate translation it has caused me to stop and rethink my postion and belief on my passages. I had to pause and think when I heard this;1 Peter 4:1-2So then, since Christ suffered physical pain, you must arm yourselves with the same attitude he had, and be ready to suffer, too. For if you are willing to suffer for Christ, you have decided to stop sinning. 2 And you won't spend the rest of your life chasing after evil desires, but you will be anxious to do the will of God. NLTI decided if there is any chance whatsoever that I must suffer for Christ then I must allow Him to prepare me for it and to rid my flesh of the desires for sin. Pre or Post I want to be ready for anything.Loving His appearing,Jeff
1 Peter 4:1-2So then, since Christ suffered physical pain, you must arm yourselves with the same attitude he had, and be ready to suffer, too. For if you are willing to suffer for Christ, you have decided to stop sinning. 2 And you won't spend the rest of your life chasing after evil desires, but you will be anxious to do the will of God. NLTIf we are willing to suffer.1 Peter 4:1-2 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. KJVHe that hath suffered, if not we are not His.Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together. The sufferings of this life are pale to the Glory when we see Him.The new living testament takes away from the suffering we were baptized into. First His death, Mark 10:39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:Then not if we are willing but it is so, if we are His we will suffer. Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together. If we don't suffer we are none of His. Are you suffering? The main reason we suffer is because we are not with Him as we will be on resurrection morning. For now we fast and our fast is being incomplete, not being as Him. We are in Him in Spirit and becoming in Him in soul (mind) and will be with Him in body, complete.Mat 9:15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast. Now we fast looking for the Bridegroom as 5 of 10 did not trim their candles and missed Him, the others kept their candles lit. In Light of This where is Post trib.2Cr 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver [us]; Delivered, in spirit; doth deliver, in soul (mind) renewing of the mind; will yet deliver, when we get our new body like His Glorious Body on resurrection morning. Past, Present, future.In Christ: Phillip