Does anyone understand the gift of discernment or know anyone who has this gift? One of my pastors has the gift of discernment.His father also had the gift of discernment.His father could not read at all as far as I know and his wife usually read the bible to him.His father totally had to rely on the holy spirit and God gave him this gift of discernment.Now his son, my pastor, has this gift.He can discern when there is evil present or if something is of God.He will get a word about someone in the service.He will for instance get a word about someone who needs to forgive someone and apologize to them and even tell them who the person is like their daughter or a son that they need to make things right with.It sure puts the fear of God in you in the service but in a good way.There is not alot of hypocrisy in this church or hidden agendas.I guess we could debate till the cows come home about "what is sin" and "must we sin" but when the power of God is present nothing is hidden that shall not be made known. Whenever I go to this church I always have to pray "God are my hands clean? Is my heart pure?" I know alot of people will say we shouldn't have to be afraid when we go in a meeting but this is a good kind of fear.It is quite intimidating to go but I really do want to know if there is sin in my life and it's very humbling but we need to be humble and realize that we are just dust.
The Gift of Discernment
From what I understand (and have been taught), the gift of discernment would allow one to see the intents /motives of someone.
Whenever I go to this church I always have to pray "God are my hands clean? Is my heart pure?" I know alot of people will say we shouldn't have to be afraid when we go in a meeting but this is a good kind of fear.Dear sister, questions to ask yourself are, "am I responding in faith and love, or in fear?" "Am I obeying Christ in peace or am I driven by condemnation?"If you feel your life to be one of pressure, fear, proving your relationship or obedience from condemnation, I urge you to calmly consider the spirit that you listen to. Does it provide assurance and comfort when it corrects you? Does it provide a way of escape when conviction comes? Are the accusations clear and specific? Do they lead to openness with others, or do they make you want to hide in fear? You may be doing the right things, but are you being led, or driven?In Christ,Ron
PreachParsly wrote:From what I understand (and have been taught), the gift of discernment would allow one to see the intents /motives of someone.I'm not really certain what the gift of discernment is. I've looked into it several times, and I have always confused the gift of discernment with other gifts. Unfortunately, there seems to be more of a "gift of suspicion" amongst many believers lately. They "get a hunch" about something, and then confuse that with "discernment." I have seen many people hurt by such false discernment. I suppose that we should be slow to believe the worst in others -- unless we are willing to truly blame such "discernment" on the Holy Spirit. In the past, I have been guilty of truly believing that the Lord had given me discernment about someone or something, and then later find out that I was completely wrong. I suppose we have all been guilty of blaming God for "telling us" something that we just either "figured out" ourselves, or was actually an opinion. However, there are those times where I somehow knew something that went against by cognitive perception in a matter -- and I lately found out that this understanding was completely correct. Is that discernment? I'm not really sure. But this is certainly a good topic for discussion! :-)
I think your right, that he is able to see the motives and intents.There are also people in that meeting that will get a word about someone.Sometimes it's a word of encouragement and sometimes it is to reveal an area of sin in a persons life.One woman I know got so uncomfortable because this person kept getting words about her that she moved to another seat.You really feel naked whenever you walk in this meeting and you can feel the presence of God before you walk in the building.I can feel the fear of God on me before I ever get in the parking lot. I think he also has the discernment of spirits because sometimes the Lord will allow him to actually see the spirit that is affecting the person and he will pray over you until it leaves. This is the first meeting that I ever experienced the power of God this way.This church has taught me alot on what it means to be holy.Whenever there is backbiting in the church he will get a word.This is not the kind of church you would go to if you are not serious with God that's for sure!
This pastor is really sensitive about being wrong about someone.He admitted that he had been wrong about someone before.It takes alot to get him to address anything anymore in the church unless he knows for sure it's God because he doesn't want to be wrong again.He is a VERY non-judgemental person.
I've heard this story that relates to this gift.Once in a meeting a woman stood up and proclaimed, "God has sent me here to minister and I will be ministering for a few days. We will need to take up an offering." Then after a few moments of silence another old women stood up and said something to this effect, " You are filled with the devil. You are a prostitute and are only here for money." Then the proclaiming woman went fleeing from the building in fear….
IntheLight, This is why I want to understand this gift because it is SO intimidating sometimes but it's not the fault of the preacher. People in the meeting will joke around sometimes about the pastor "reading their mail".People really do search themselves before they come to the meeting which is why the power of God is so strong.
hi, i thought the gift was the decernings of spirits. jimp
Jimp, We are talking about discerning of spirits.
hi rebecca, len ravenhill ministered with a man in the latter rain era(50s)who one night called for three people who really need healing to come forth.when they came up to the minister he asked the first,a woman,if God heals you will you stop sleeping with the married man in the third pew with the red tie on. God is tired of healing people so they can use their healed bodies for sin. the other two people took their seats. sounds like you found yourself a good place to worship Jesus.jimp
To me discernment is the ability to "see" someones spirit. I think that anyone who is filled with the spirit would have this ability. Of course in different messures, but we ALL have it if we have the spirit of Christ within us. I don't see it as a special gift set aside for only an elect few. The primary reason we have this ability from the holy spirit is so that we will not be deceived in these final days. Not to go around pointing out all the devils in our church. If there are devils in your church then bind in the name of JESUS. God doesn't need spectacular performances to stop the enemy right in his tracks. We need to bind the power of the devil in people, but keep the people in the church. How do we know they won't surrend to Christ? The Lord has only had me confront 2 people in the past. One was a false prophet who had many people in my area in bondage. I went to a "prophecy" meeting not knowing what to do or say, but knowing that night a vicotry would be won in heaven! What I said to him did not seem like much. I didn't say, "you devil, you false prophet" and point my finger at him. I simply asked him a few questions that the Lord had me to ask him. And that was it. It didn't seem like a great vicotry at the time, but as the months past I got to talk to a few people who had been totally set free from the lies of the enemy because of that brief encounter. We have to be careful not to esteem anyone who appears to have a special gift from God. Even if that person is me or you. We need to KNOW CHRIST!! I am determined to know Chirst and His cross!! Anything else is a distraction.
Woah, tinlukeTo me discernment is the ability to "see" someones spirit. This is a massive assumption with serious implications. The context of the phrase “To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:”(1Cor 12:10 KJVS) seems to be in a local gathering of the saints. To make 'discerning of spirits' a private gift would be contrary to the whole theme of this part of 1 Corinthians.The opening verses of 1 Cor 12 may also point to the historical context for such a need. “But concerning spiritual [manifestations], brethren, I do not wish you to be ignorant. Ye know that when ye were [of the] nations [ye were] led away to dumb idols, in whatever way ye might be led. I give you therefore to know, that no one, speaking in [the power of the] Spirit of God, says, Curse [on] Jesus; and no one can say, Lord Jesus, unless in [the power of the] Holy Spirit.” (1Cor 12:1-3 DRBY)It is easy to forget that 1 Corinthians was written to people who knew what it was like to be 'carried away' by other spirits.
To make 'discerning of spirits' a private gift would be contrary to the whole theme of this part of 1 Corinthians.philologos,While recognising it is important for us to know what the scripture tells us, and I'm glad you have done so here, are you saying, then, that when a person needs to be delivered from a spirit, the whole church should be present? Or, that those with the gift of discernment should exercise it only in the presence of the whole church?I think of the disciples when they were sent out two by two...... and feel this is a practical precedent in many naturally arising situations.Lastly, how many of us have prayed for our children, all alone - not necessarily in extremis, but, say in the night or early morning - when the only recourse is directly to the Lord and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit? I would do the same for an adult - not in church - if I felt the Lord's leading in that direction..... Possibly my 'take' on gifts is slightly non-standard, in that I don't think of myself as possessing or owning any gift I feel called upon to exercise..... and I always expect to call upon the Lord's faith as much as my own (such as my faith is), when praying for others.I identify with Tinluke's experience of non-church situations, too, in which bringing the authority of God into the scenario alters the spiritual dynamic (towards God-in-control) very effectively.EDIT: I immediately wonder whether 'under the guidance of the Holy Spirit' is what I mean. What happens is, one is praying as one is living through an event, listening to what the Lord is prompting, and making choices as to how to bring His word to bear on the situation. Sometimes, all that is necessary is to have heard Him, and to not 'do' anything, except remain open to His word... I mean, the 'doing' may be other than to speak.
I believe we do all have the ability to discern.For example someone can be saying all the right things but you can sense darkness on them or deception.There are alot of people that I will run into in the grocery store and you can sense darkness. There is though a gift of the discerning of spirits.Like the woman in Acts who was prophesying about Paul and the apostles and Paul rebuked her. I have been more aware of the fact that we all have this ability to discern since I have been going to this fellowship.It has helped me to be more aware and more sensitive to the spiritual realm.We need alot of discernment in the churches today.
Philologos, I hate to quote myself, but I think I'm going to have to in this case. Seems like you read the first line of my post and stopped there.I think that anyone who is filled with the spirit would have this ability. Of course in different messures, but we ALL have it if we have the spirit of Christ within us. I don't see it as a special gift set aside for only an elect few.
Rebecca,I love you're example of the women in Acts! For example someone can be saying all the right things but you can sense darkness on them or deception. Exactly!! Anyone can quote scripute and put on a good performance. Any one of us could be fooled by a good actor in a suite and tie, standing behind a pulpit. But thank God for His spirit within us. It will keep up from being deceived every time!!
hmm, I never saw this thread until now.I do have the gift of discernment.First and formost, I believe EVERY Christian has a hint of discernment. I think there are some scriptures on this.The 'gift' is something truly amazing. Some people say to me 'I dont see that' or 'your being judgemental'.I could give you over 100 examples of the gift. But let me just try to tell you 'what' i've seen with no examples (if you can understand me telling you plainly)All of this is SOMETIMES, NOT all the time."I can tell" = by the power of the Holy SpiritI can tell if someone is Christian.I can tell if someone is possessed, and sometimes how many demons are in that person.I can tell if someone is going to get angry in 10 seconds, by the way I feel their spirit stur up. And can stop it, because of that knowledge.I can tell when someone is in the flesh. (doing things on their own will)I can tell when someone else is getting blessed.I can sense someone's calling. (Prophet, janitor, preacher, evangelist..etc; that relates to that person)I can NOW, (before I couldn't) almost find the ROOT of someone's problems.I can sense someone's feelings miles away, after thinking about them for a little bit.I can tell the maturity of a person, in their walk, and in their life.I can tell when someone has been turning away from God.I can tell when their are demonic creatures in my area, or certain areas that I drive by."I can sense angels as well.I can tell when Jesus is about to come completly with POWER. (like, when worship turns from good...to GREAT)I can spot false christians/prophets/etc.I can tell when someone is offfended. (I'm trying to be more pro-active on this)Without words I can do all of this. (neither on me, or the person i'm 'discerning'.)I can describe each of those more in-depth if you would like.I don't say any of those out of pride, because they BAFFLE ME. I don't understand how I see this stuff, I just do. God's grace.But, I believe those who have discernment, just like any gift. Have a responsiblity to use to. If you see someone is possessed, and they are just sitting their quitely but you KNOW their possessed, if you don't have the faith, get someone else to help you and cast those demons out.No use in burrying your gift in the ground.Blessings
tinluke's I hate to quote myself, but I think I'm going to have to in this case. Seems like you read the first line of my post and stopped there. Not at all, I read the whole of it. My objection, in case you didn't read all mine ;-) was that you are defining 'discerning of spirits' as though it were referring to one man's discerning of another man's personal spirit. As this is the only passage of scripture that speaks directly of 'the discerning of spirits' we have some responsibility to see what it says and its context. The context is of unique spiritual manifestations which are not the possession of every saint in the church.rebecca 5'a I believe we do all have the ability to discern.For example someone can be saying all the right things but you can sense darkness on them or deception.There are alot of people that I will run into in the grocery store and you can sense darkness. You will recall Paul's question as little later in the chapter “Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?” (1Cor 12:30 KJVS) The implied answer is clearly 'no'. Paul has taken two examples of the whole group. If he had chosen to do so he might well worked his way through the whole list “For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:”(1Cor 12:8-10 KJVS)These 'spirituals' are not universally spread through all the church to every saint. Your sense of who belongs to the Lord may be more general but it is not what the scriptures mean by 'discerning of spirits'.
I would think every believer, without a doubt mature believers, have 'discernment.'Hbr 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. I think people get confused about the 'gift of discernment' along with the gifts of the word of wisdom and knowledge. We all have (or should!) have wisdom and knowledge, but not all have that gift. There is a difference between having the "gift of ___" and a Christian having "____."Am I making sense?
I think 'discerning' and the 'discerning of Spirits' are two different things.We all discern to a certain degree and according to your sensitivity to the spirit some may discern more easily than others.I think the 'discerning of spirits' though is a gift or an ability that God gives you.
Am I making sense? Sounds sense to me. :-D I think we do well to be cautious about 'judging' another man's spirit.
Speaking of discernment…. I discern a cynical function behind what has been popularly accepted as “The Gift of Discernment.” ;-) Often I have seen this gift used as a pious pseudonym for practicing presumption rather then taking the effort to really know each other. (Personal proverb: never trust a carpetbagger who practices the gift of discernment.) The abundant but confusing (popular) material on this subject frustrates me. Much of what is accepted as authentic biblical teaching on the gift of discernment smacks of superstition. I would like to hear more about the community or body aspect that Ron was bringing up. For instance is the case of Thyatira, which was growing in love and faith but tolerating the false teaching of Jezebel, a good example of where the gift of discernment could have helped a church? Could the gift of discernment be more concerned with the spirit behind a doctrine or teaching or even cultural practice…as opposed to ”exposing” an individual’s spirit?MC
How come no one ever talks about the gift of suspicion? Oh wait... that's not a gift.. :-P
PreachP. you said it right on the previous page.We all should have discernment, and you gave an excellent verse (in fact one I had hoped 'someone' would have finished on, on another thread ;-) ) ... and that the 1Corth 12 "gifts" are not "resident", but as God sees fit, He'll use anyone in, anyone or more of them.As it is written in that Chpt... God could use you in all 9 today and one tomorrow and none for a year... "as He wills". Watchman Nee was good about that other discernment though ... that we all should have .... because Jesus walked in a constant state of discernment ... if we can "walk in the Spirit" .... then we'd have that as Jesus walked in.That's why He became dependent on the Holy Spirit as an example unto us, how we should/could walk.I fear for folks who do not believe that we can walk as He did ... because He did it 'for' an example for us. (Emptied Himself to become 'dependent'.)We should have all the same functionings of The Holy Spirit that Jesus operated in. Some as God Wills, when He Wills, but as far as fruit or productivity in the ministry ... it would be nice to see less of "self" in ministers and more of just "walking in the Spirit" alone.Bless Him.
Yeshua, sounds like a lot of discerning going on down there in Florida.Let me say up front that I don't doubt what you say at all, but my question is have you ever ran into someone who wasn't a professing christian who had similiar abilities?The reason I ask is because a long time ago I knew a guy who was a self described "Jewish Mormon" when I lived in Utah. This guy's abilities were simply uncanny.If you lost something in your house he could tell you where to find it, without ever having been to your house! He could read aura's and tell where your body aches were, and what your disposition that day was. He had insight and his stuff was right on.I wonder how someone who doesn't profess Christ (at least like we do) can present the same type of gifts with roughly the same or better accuracy as a believer. Could this be an innate gift that some people might be born with, apart from their belief system, and then used for good or ill according to their beliefs? (Like shamen/witch doctors)I suppose some might say it's a demon when an unbeliever does it, but the Holy Spirit when a believer does it, but I'm not sure it's that simple. Did you ever have these abilities prior to your baptizism? Or did it one day just start happening? Anyway, my "Jewish Mormon" friend still makes me scratch my head after all these years.
Pharoah's Magicians duplicated some of the miracles that God did through Moses ... so I'd have to say ... there are only two 'super'natural powers in this universe and one is Satan's.
Hi YeshuaIsMyGd..."I can tell" = by the power of the Holy SpiritI can tell if someone is Christian.I can tell if someone is possessed, and sometimes how many demons are in that person.I can tell if someone is going to get angry in 10 seconds, by the way I feel their spirit stur up. And can stop it, because of that knowledge.I can tell when someone is in the flesh. (doing things on their own will)I can tell when someone else is getting blessed.I can sense someone's calling. (Prophet, janitor, preacher, evangelist..etc; that relates to that person)I can NOW, (before I couldn't) almost find the ROOT of someone's problems.I can sense someone's feelings miles away, after thinking about them for a little bit.I can tell the maturity of a person, in their walk, and in their life.I can tell when someone has been turning away from God.I can tell when their are demonic creatures in my area, or certain areas that I drive by."I can sense angels as well.I can tell when Jesus is about to come completly with POWER. (like, when worship turns from good...to GREAT)I can spot false christians/prophets/etc.I can tell when someone is offfended. (I'm trying to be more pro-active on this)This is a wonderful gift to have -- if it used the way that the Lord intended. Unfortunately, as others have mentioned, people often confuse the gift of "discerning of spirits" with a "feeling of suspicion." In fact, some of those that claimed to have "the gift of discernment" were often some of the worst discerners in the Church! They loudly proclaimed the things that they "supernaturally discerned." But when they were proven wrong, they only admitted that they "are only human." They almost forgot that, in some cases, there was a great deal of damage done. And the person claiming such a gift often continues to proclaim their spiritual discernment. Have you ever heard a believer state, "I know this about you..." and it was totally out in "left field?" This has happened more times than I can count! It has happened at Church, in prayer meetings, and even in these forums. Often, such "discernment" leads to confusion or hurt feelings. Most of the time, people attempt to speak how they discern "good things" about the lives of others. But ever so often, I have heard or read the "discernment" where believers state, "I know you are thinking this...or that..." or "I know you feel this way about me, because God told me so" or "I know what you're trying to do..." This has happened to me on numerous occassions. And almost every time, those people were completely wrong. I suppose we should try and "discern" what the purpose of the "gift of discernment" is all about. Is it meant as a means for God to warn the "spiritual people" in the Church? Is it meant as a way to strengthen a believer or group of believers against the deception of the Kingdom of Darkness? Why does it often seem that many people use this "gift" to "gossip" or "accuse?" And why do so many people that have the "gift of discernment" often disagree about the things that are "discerned?"I do believe in the gift of "discerner of spirits." However, only God can know the heart of a person. We should not suppose that God is going to reveal the motives of the heart of believers with whom we are suspicious or disagree. But this is a great topic for discussion -- and I am reading everyone's comments with great interest. However, I do think that we should be careful not to mistake "discernment" with "suspicion." I am wondering if anyone else has had a bad experience with a person claiming such a gift? And what do you think this gift is truly all about? :-(
Let me answer some of your question Jim.my question is have you ever ran into someone who wasn't a professing christian who had similiar abilities?No. Never ran into anyone. I have heard a few stories. One comes to mind. In a service someone rebukes someone (divinly led) and the 'mock' person says 'you are of satan'. And then the 'mock' person gets caught in the lie of their 'discernment' and gets kicked out or demons casted outta them. (I don't remember the exact ending cause i've heard similar stories like that, different endings)I wonder how someone who doesn't profess Christ (at least like we do) can present the same type of gifts with roughly the same or better accuracy as a believer. Could this be an innate gift that some people might be born with, apart from their belief system, and then used for good or ill according to their beliefs? (Like shamen/witch doctors)I suppose some might say it's a demon when an unbeliever does it, but the Holy Spirit when a believer does it, but I'm not sure it's that simple. The enemy has power. Just not as much as us Christians.The enemy can heal people. Prophesy. And do many things a Christian can do. But by the power of Satan, wheither they know it or not.True witchdoctors cause havoc. True 'spiritists' cause trouble. Because they have POWER from below. We have it from above, which is better. Does this answer your question? Or do I need to describe it more?Oh, and by the way, some can be just doing it 'in the flesh' as well. And not a counterfit. (like what I described)Did you ever have these abilities prior to your baptizism? Or did it one day just start happening? They happened after I received the Holy Spirit, NOT when I did, but AFTER.And that was AFTER water baptism as well.I prayed for it. And it happened, it freaked me out at first.
I guess everyone will just have to drive down here and go to church with me! YeshuaisMyGod, Your right down the road from this church.How about you attend and tell them what you've found out! :-)
hi, "these kind come out only by prayer and fasting" this is the gift of discernings of spirits.jimp
jimp wrote:hi, "these kind come out only by prayer and fasting" this is the gift of discernings of spirits.jimpI'm not sure I follow... Can you explain? :-?
hi, this is the example of Jesus knowing the type of demonic spirits that the apostles were facing and how to best handle the situation. another example is in acts 16 when a spirit of divination was cast out of a woman. we probably would have put her on the board of directors.( how did we get to know what kind of spirit this was)jimp
jimp's hi, this is the example of Jesus knowing the type of demonic spirits that the apostles were facing and how to best handle the situation. another example is in acts 16 when a spirit of divination was cast out of a woman. we probably would have put her on the board of directors.( how did we get to know what kind of spirit this was)jimpI do think these a true examples of the 'discerning of spirits'. I have mentioned before how instructive the Philippi event should be to us. This woman had apparently been making her pronouncements for 'many days' (Acts 16:18). We have no way of knowing exactly how many days this was but the beginning of Acts refers to a period of 'not many days' (Acts 1:5). This exact opposite of the Acts 16:18 we know to have been 10 days! So if 'not many days' is 10 days, how many days is 'many days'. (if you follow my meaning :-( )For this whole period of time Paul appears to have been in 'ignorance' of the true nature of the event. When the 'discerning of spirits' was given he immediately acted. This makes it clear that we are not talking about a generally distributed 'gift of discernment' but something quite different.
I think you definately have something there Ron.Im sure Paul was troubled for a few days because of this woman.Im sure his spirit man was troubled even though he probably wasn't sure exactly what to do about it.I wonder if He prayed and asked God or if God just gave him a word about her. Acts 16:18 And this she did many days.But Paul BEING GRIEVED,turned and said TO THE SPIRIT ,I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.And he came out the same hour. I noticed to that the spirit did not come out right away,it took at most an hour.Try that in church!!!!
Rebecca5's I noticed to that the spirit did not come out right away,it took at most an hour.Try that in church!!!!mmm? the English language can be confusing at times. You may have noticed that there are no 'minutes' in the KJV? I found this on the webThe Babylonians (about 300-100 B.C.E.) did their astronomical calculations in the sexagesimal (base-60) system. This was extremely convenient for simplifying division, since 60 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 10. The first fractional sexagesimal place we now call a minute, the second place, a second. The Bible divides time up into days and hours (or even half an hour - Rev 8:1) This way of using the word 'hour' actually means 'at that time'. as in Matt 10:19; 26:55; Luke 7:21; 12:12; 20:19; 24:33; John 4:53; Acts 16:18,33; 22:13; Rev 11:13The NIV has She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, "In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!" At that moment the spirit left her. Acts 16:18 NIVI have been trying to find out when we first began to use 'minutes' but so far unsuccessfully.
Ancient Egypt: The Father Of Time I haven't read the whole article yet but the first paragraph sounds promising...The way in which we divide the day into hours and minutes, as well as the structure and length of the yearly calendar, owes much to pioneering developments in ancient Egypt. EDIT: I read it and here is the conclusion. The division of time was further refined by another Alexandrian based philosopher, Claudius Ptolemeus, who divided the equinoctial hour into 60 minutes, inspired by the scale of measurement used in ancient Babylon.
hi,danny ost was a great missionary to mexico(12 churches with thousands in each church were started by him,bible collegeetc... he was told of a girl who was tied to a post because she was a demoniac of great proportions. she ate,slept and left waste in this fenced in pen.she howled and screamed and bit like a dog. he and his wife prayed for her and then brought her to his home where they ministered to her for a year before she was truly free. she attended his bible college and later married a preacher boy who ended up pastoring one of the 3000 member churches. i have been with danny in services when he would pray for a man who was the victom of witchcraft for well over an hour. the man had waled for two days to get to that service. we all judge everything only by our window of experience. jimp
You guys DO know that their are biblical examples of discernment right?I can think of about 2-3 in my head, but they are in the OT. And I know there is a couple in NT.If someone else would like to search the scirptures for me, that would be great. :-P I don't have much time. But, I will try to find them all soon..
First of all, sometimes I think we make things WAY too complicated.I tend to agree with "YeshuaIsMyGd"It's like ....I just know something is not quite right with a certain individual or something like that.And by the way...Each time I have felt that "feeling" (discernment) about someone, it has proven to be 100% accurate.I don't brag on it...I don't share it with anyone...other than maybe my wife..and sometimes not even her...I just take it for what it is...the Holy Spirit...giving me discernment in a particular situation.To me, it's the Holy Spirit, warning me, keeping me safe, in check, out of harm...teaching me...showing me wisdom..etc.That's what I describe as the gift of discernment.I could be wrong of course. :-D
Maybe this has been said but I'm curious.What about discerning who is really saved??I have alot of thoughts on this subject but you always want to be careful...and tell someone who thinks they are really a christian that their not. Paul Ravenhill told me this is a growing problem today. People believe their saved but not. Well, this post is about discernment.
Sentry wrote:First of all, sometimes I think we make things WAY too complicated.I tend to agree with "YeshuaIsMyGd"It's like ....I just know something is not quite right with a certain individual or something like that.And by the way...Each time I have felt that "feeling" (discernment) about someone, it has proven to be 100% accurate.I don't brag on it...I don't share it with anyone...other than maybe my wife..and sometimes not even her...I just take it for what it is...the Holy Spirit...giving me discernment in a particular situation.To me, it's the Holy Spirit, warning me, keeping me safe, in check, out of harm...teaching me...showing me wisdom..etc.That's what I describe as the gift of discernment.I could be wrong of course. :-D :-D I like this post.I think it's important to stress that the difference between Godly Discernment and this other bunk, that comes out as a critical spirit or really "the flesh" ... is the nature of the person first ... are they humble and trusting Father like a little child or are they "TRYING" to discern (God's doesn't need our help that way) .... I've seen people look at someone, and their eye-brows come down & eyes squint, as they're looking at someone "trying to 'discern' that person". WEEIIIRRRDDD.I've noticed that the most discerning are the most child like, as in humble and leaning on Jesus in utter dependence, as if that were the most natural thing in the world to do.Oops - Edited to say that I forgot to say ....Whether this is the "gift" of discernment or just the Holy Spirit actively discerning for a child of God, on a somewhat regular basis (the person has ears open to the Lord out of total dependence), because that person knows WHO to trust ... I don't know, and frankly, I don't care which it is ... but I do believe it. :-)
Whether this is the "gift" of discernment or just the Holy Spirit actively discerning for a child of God, on a somewhat regular basis (the person has ears open to the Lord out of total dependence), because that person knows WHO to trust ... I don't know, and frankly, I don't care which it is ... but I do believe it. :-) Well said...and I agree also.Perhaps it could be said that someone who has the "gift of discernment" has MORE ability to "see" or "discern" someones intents?I'm not sure...but I believe that EVERY believer should have this gift. Why? Because it's the nature of the Holy Spirit.Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
hi, show me where there is a gift called the gift of descernment... please... jimp
jimp wrote:hi, show me where there is a gift called the gift of descernment... please... jimpA very good statement...perhaps "gift" is not quite the correct term to use.I'm not able to look it up right now...but will do so later.I guess it sorta proves my point...that ALL believers should possess this attribute...for lack of a better term.We...as believers...should be able to discern (see, sense)...whether someone is a false prophet...or something just doesn't seem right...etc...Perhaps people that are able to discern more than others are just paying more attention to the Holy Spirit?I know this is rather simple...but maybe we should just be more attentive to the Holy Spirit?I certainly am not an expert on this subject...not that anyone is. ;-) Thank God for discernment...!!!EDIT...1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
Hi jimp...hi, show me where there is a gift called the gift of descernment... please... jimpI believe that everyone is referring to the I Corinthians 12:10 verse concerning the gift of "discerning of spirits:""To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; [/b]to another discerning of spirits[b]; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:" The NIV translates this as "distinguishing between spirits." I believe in this gift, and I have seen and experienced it firsthand. Unfortunately, I have seen the misuse much more often. Has anyone else seen someone make an accusation that they blamed on this "gift" of discernment? I have noticed this -- and often from the most sincere and well-meaning believers! I believe that we must be careful, lest we speak a lie that we truly feel is discernment. If you have had this happen to you, how do you correct the person? There are some well-meaning believers that I know that claim to have this gift. Sometimes, it seems like they are right on target! But still other times, they quickly state what they feel, and end up scarring young believers. It happened to my girlfriend a couple of years ago while attending a prayer meeting. It has happened to me on several ocassions since meeting the Lord. Less than a year after meeting the Lord, I went to a Christian youth camp in Tennessee. The weekend before the camp, I was helping my dad clear some branches in the forest located on our property. In the process, I scraped the inner sides of my forearms. I didn't need to go to the doctors office, but it left a rather ugly set of marks for a while (that looked a little like deep scars). One night at camp, I noticed one of the evangelist's wives staring at my arms during worship. At the end of the service, I prayed on my knees at my seat. This lady walked up to me and told me that she had the gift of "discerning of spirits." Immediately, she told me that she had "discerned" the "spirit of suicide" on me. I was embarrassed, because she was saying this outloud. She asked me, "Is this true?" I was trying to quietly tell her that she was wrong when she just began praying for me. She started "rebuking" that suicidal spirit, along with a spirit of depression, supression, oppression, and a few others to boot. Of course, alot of other well-meaning "spiritual" pastors and youth workers joined in to lay hands on me. I sort of just stood there stunned. I just wanted to leave. I have never been suicidal in my life -- not even before I was a believer! Since then, I have come to realize that many very sincere people really mess up like this -- and then call it "discernment." It has happened to me and others at Church, at prayer meetings, and even on these forums from time to time. Most of the time, the people who "mess up" never get around to admitting that they actually messed up. In fact, they continue to practice their "discernment" upon others. Brothers and sisters, we must be careful about what we say. And if we are not 100% undeniably certain that what we have received is from the Lord, then we must be slow to speak (or write). Otherwise, we may be attributing something to the Lord that is not from the Lord. And as a result, lives may be hurt or damaged. My girlfriend is still hurting from the pain caused by someone's claim of "discernment." :-(
I believe in this gift, and I have seen and experienced it firsthand. Unfortunately, I have seen the misuse much more often. Has anyone else seen someone make an accusation that they blamed on this "gift" of discernment? I have noticed this -- and often from the most sincere and well-meaning believers! I believe that we must be careful, lest we speak a lie that we truly feel is discernment. misused?yes...a lot I'm afraid.With me...I have learned to try and keep my mouth shut. (I'm still learning by the way).I feel that perhaps God is talking to me and for me and me only. Not to share with others or try and convince others.Am I making sense?It's like our nature is to always want to share what God has told us...or revealed to us.But I believe that most of the time God is dealing with ME...and ME only...perhaps an object lesson...showing me wisdom...etc.Brothers and sisters, we must be careful about what we say. And if we are not 100% undeniably certain that what we have received is from the Lord, then we must be slow to speak (or write). Otherwise, we may be attributing something to the Lord that is not from the Lord. And as a result, lives may be hurt or damaged. My girlfriend is still hurting from the pain caused by someone's claim of "discernment." :-( AMEN, AMEN, and AMEN!
Chris, if I were there I would have decked her one.Haaa. In love and the Spirit of course.Seriously though, I don't go for this nonsense of "telling people what your "Gift" is" #1 ... Not even if it's just the "gift of teaching" or "serving" or "giving" or "mercy", etc. etc.. As soon as someone tells me "I have the gift of mercy or whatever" ... I back off.I'm not saying that to anyone who's posted here ... because I think Josh and Sentry's hearts are not proud and puffed up, 'self'-confident and all of that.Secondly, anyone who starts with that, "I sense a spirit of this or that" ... is usually 98% of the time wrong.Jesus did cast out a "spirit of this or that", but that was not a common practice to "name spirits".I've seen this mostly in the so-called "Deliverance Ministry Movement". Bunch a hog-wash.Sorry, I'm not as tactful as some ... I'm more like Paul with tact when it comes to spiritual abuses and in what you are talking about Chris, what that woman did to you, has been and is going on all over the globe for a long-long time.Even the prophets are subject to the prophets when they speak a word.These lone ranger demon chasers should be exposed just like the story someone else gave on this thread of that prostitute, soliciting money from that Church.I know of a similar incidence, where a woman came and took a position of working with the youth.Someone got a word of knowledge, I guess you'd call it, or discernment, that this woman was actually in the slave trade market.The person told the Pastor, etc. but no one would listen ... but Thankfully ... the Lord Himself revealed that this was true about her.Lotsa "hooga-booga" things go on in the Charismatic/Pentacostal realms, so we need always to have our "Shield" up.We learned that the hard way too, about "dropping your shield around "Christians", most especially with those in any 'authority' type position."Our spirits looked like your arms did. All scarred up.We all need "discernment" and all the more as that Day approaches, because the Deception is going to go beyond anything we've ever seen as yet.That's why, I'm not too concerned at the moment, of whether we want to term this gift from God (regardless) as "the" gift of discernment or just Holy Spirit given discernment .... I just know we'll all need discernment of this type, as we go along in these days, till He Comes.And humble, child-like dependence, looking up to Him is the safest way to be protected in that way.I liked all of your posts too Sentry. Thank you.God Bless and Protect.been wounded too
dear me,dear me, i perceive you have the gift of gab. jimp
It's like ....I just know something is not quite right with a certain individual or something like that.And by the way...Each time I have felt that "feeling" (discernment) about someone, it has proven to be 100% accurate.I don't brag on it...I don't share it with anyone...other than maybe my wife..and sometimes not even her...I just take it for what it is...the Holy Spirit...giving me discernment in a particular situation.To me, it's the Holy Spirit, warning me, keeping me safe, in check, out of harm...teaching me...showing me wisdom..etc.Blessings Mark, my name is joshua 8-) I think your idea on the gift of discernment is a little off. Because, it's almost saying 'those who have a prophetic word, is to be silent.' likewise 'those who have a word of healing for someone, to be silent.' And brother, I'm sorry but it's not biblical.BUT, at the same time. What you do is safer.I believe WHATEVER gift you have. First needs to be tested(by the one that received it) and when it holds true, then given to someone or causes us to pray more.Yes, their is alot of false. More than 5/6 people in this world aren't christian, let alone Charasmatic. So, exspect the false. But our concern here is 'what is the truth'.I've heard stories of sisters in Christ (surprisingly enough, no brothers...) that said 'I saw this in the Spirit...and I weep for the people's sins.'I think the gift of discernment should cause the person who has to to PRAY and/or ACT. Cause if you 'get' something for God, God doesn't just give you something to keep to yourself. That's totally unbiblical. (Unless, someone can prove me wrong, scriputally)Can you discern's someone's salvation? YES, but!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that is VERY dangerous and should be taken with extreme care.Demon's have discerning spirits. Remember all the demons say 'You are the Son of God' and in one stance Jesus says 'shhhh'. Jesus never even spoke a word, but the demon reconized the spiritual.I believe every Christian has a hint of discernment. But some do have a calling to 'discern' things. And those that see 'many' things in the Spirit, BETTER not keep quite about it, cause the Body of Christ can't work, to it's fullest potential, with only 90% of the body moving.I hope you all understood my post, if not, please ask a question.
Joshua, You left out Sentry's first sentence over your quote where he said, "I tend to agree with "YeshuaIsMyGd""You see, he agrees with your post. That was more than most people would say.Anyhow .... we are getting our "gifts" jumbled up here though.When a person is New to being used in a gift ... our Merciful God, starts them off slowly most of the time.He'll teach us His Still Small Voice through allowing things, like Sentry mentioned to happen to us "personally", and then, once we get the feel for what is from God, flesh or the devil, and we've proved God's voice from all other voices or "movings", or whatever you want to call His gifts or how they work .... then later He'll move us into outer ministering with that gift ... as you said, "for others".You don't jump into being used in a big way in the Body, until God has taken you through the growth process it takes to discern "good from evil" and "Him from Counterfeits".So, what he is saying is not wrong, in that he is not being given discernment presently and possibly being used of God in that gift.Again, the gifts of 1 Corth 12 are Not Resident gifts. So it's not a "calling" as you called it.A person who is "regularly" used in discernment and word of wisdom or knowledge gifts, more than likely has "the calling" as Prophet or Pastor. Mind you that I said "regularly used".Also, none of us are forgeting that discernment in and of itself is necessary for the whole Body to pray for ... as much as faith.The 9 gifts of 1 Corth 12 are for every and any member of the Body to be used in 'whenever God sees fit', but they do not reside in the person.People can be used in the gift of healing, but to say you have a "Healing Ministry" is really not Scriptural. If that were so we'd have a "Miracle man" and "the Word of Knowledge man". We only have the Book of Acts, to judge these things. Paul was used in probably all 9 at one time or another and of course Jesus was too. But no one of these 9 turns into "a ministry of" unless it fits into one of the other two 'Resident' Gift areas in Eph and Rom..Eph 4:11 are "calling" gifts - apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. These 5 gifts are also called 'Ministerial Gifts'. (Resident/calling gifts)1 Corth 12 ,,, those 9 gifts are 'Manifestational Gifts' (non-resident)And these next in Rom 12 are called 'Motivational Gifts'. They also are resident and "motivate" the person by the feeling of their own "burden" for these specific gifts.Like a giver, sees "giving" as what motivates most of what they do. etc.Romans 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; Rom 12:7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; Rom 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that showeth mercy, with cheerfulness. But prophet jimp says I talk too much, so I better end it here. :-P
I'm going to say this in a different way...How do we deal with those who we really sense or discern that are not saved and they really think they are.The Bible does say the Spirit beareth witness. Or is it discerment when we hear them talk about everything but Jesus. They dont read the Word. I think we can safely say if they talk about everything but Jesus theres no hunger for the Word. Do we just add it all up?? Even though their at church alot?? We all deal with people like this at church....do we just let them slip by and go to hell?? What other ways do we discern this???
I have found in my walk with God that He will back up the gift of decernment with His Word.I know when that man came into our Church and was telling people all kinds of things, that He showed me from the Holy Scriptures that He wasn't real.If we, as God's Children will ask Him, He will show us, but it always will be backed up by the Word of GodThere are way too many people going around saying, "Thus said the Word of God,", and God didn't send them, they are wolves in sheep's clothing.God will confirm His Word to His Children.God BlessNellie
YeshuaIsMyGd wrote:Blessings Mark, my name is joshua 8-) I think your idea on the gift of discernment is a little off. Because, it's almost saying 'those who have a prophetic word, is to be silent.' likewise 'those who have a word of healing for someone, to be silent.' And brother, I'm sorry but it's not biblical.BUT, at the same time. What you do is safer.Hi Joshua,Well, my wife would defintely say that I'm a little off :-P I see what you're saying...and yes...we should share what God has put in our hearts.However, only with careful consideration and wisdom I believe.I guess my main point was..that so many people say way too much..and let's just face it...they do more harm than good...I like James' advice, although this is not talking about discernment..it is good advice.Jam 1:19 "Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:" In Christ,Mark
Hi YeshuaIsMyGD...!I think your idea on the gift of discernment is a little off. Because, it's almost saying 'those who have a prophetic word, is to be silent.' likewise 'those who have a word of healing for someone, to be silent.' And brother, I'm sorry but it's not biblical.I'm not certain what Mark meant with his post. However, there is an extreme and immediate danger in the Church with men and women who go around proclaiming their "discernment." Some of the most well-meaning and doctrinally sound charismatic and pentecostal fellowships sometime have believers that proclaim to be endowed with a "supernatural gift" where they "can tell" who is really a believer or not. Most of the time, I don't think that God shares such information with them. Why? Because of the way that they often handle such "discernment." Often, they feel like they are "defenders of the faith" and publically proclaim what they feel that they have "heard" or "discerned." Why can't such "discernment-gifted" believers just talk to a brother/sister privately (like the Word says) and speak to him/her about what they "think" that they have "discerned?" When their "discernment" (or sometimes, "feelings" or "suspicions") are correct -- they offer it as proof to others of their gift. But when they are wrong, they just admit that they are human and prone to mistakes (rather than admitting that they really "missed it" badly. And sadly, they forget to see the damage that such false "discernment" can cause.Sadly, I must admit that I have rarely encountered a person that publically claimed to have such a "gift" that actually did (or did not "misuse" it). It is often this way with many of the gifts. If a person is gifted with "healing," then why aren't they in the hospital or hospices? If a person is gifted with "prophecy," then why do they prophecy simple, generic words (that could apply to anything) rather than specific, heart-cutting truths? And why do they only prophecy to fellow believers? Instead, believers often settle for reputation instead of actual substance. Pentecostals and Charismatic believers would often rather place such "gifted" men/women on television. It reminds me of the "parable of the fishless fisherman." Is a person really a fisherman if they never really go fishing?I do believe in the gifts -- including the ability to "discern between spirits." I have seen some things (and experienced things) that would be almost unbelievable if written in the message boards. But I often keep these things in my heart and ponder them before the Lord, rather than shouting such experiences from the rooftop. Are there discerners in the Church today? Of course. But like the rest of the gifts, I believe that there are far more people that claim to be endowed than actually practice them. I would pray that God would raise up thousands of humble men and women -- full of meekness and sincerity -- that would able to use the gifts as I Corinthians 12 intended. Instead, our Churches seem to be filled with men and women of reputation, that either fail in using the gift properly -- or that do not have the gift at all. :-(
hi,iam going to let those with the gift of discernment judge this but there is no gift of discernment.it is the gift of discernings of spirits because we wrestle NOT against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in high places;demonic activity.if you are judging people you are not judging spirits.... having the gift of gab means you are well spoken.. jimp
I beleive that a person can have this gift but still have the tendency to get into the flesh if they are not careful.And lets just face it, there are some really nutty people out there so we have to be careful.We have to wear our armour even when were in church.We have to really gaurd our hearts because some christians can just be really mean.I don't even know how to decifer a christian from a nonchristian anymore in church unless I use discernment.I can't always say "he's a christian" or "she's a christian" but I just know that there are certain people that I am kind to but I just don't want to be around them.I want to be around people that pull me closer to Him not pull me down.
First off. I love you all. (nothing 'bad' is coming...well kinda)Annie. Mark's opening statement was "I agree with you josh" but then the body of what he said was totally different.Mark, thanks for showing me 'exactually' what you meant by your statement."I see what you're saying...and yes...we should share what God has put in our hearts.However, only with careful consideration and wisdom I believe.I guess my main point was..that so many people say way too much..and let's just face it...they do more harm than good..."Brent asked:How do we deal with those who we really sense or discern that are not saved and they really think they are?First and foremost, Nellie was on the money.I have found in my walk with God that He will back up the gift of decernment with His Word.But now, if you have a 'sight' into someone's life and they are a 'false brethern'. And YOU KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW IS 100% true. You need to DEAL with this person IN LOVE. Rebuke them. If your not in love, your nothing more than a rambling condemning bible-thumper.(not a disciple) But if your in love, that could correct/rebuke them in such a way, they 'come back' or 'come' to Christ for the first time.Okay.. Chris says (i'm going to answer every stance you have.): Most of the time, I don't think that God shares such information with them. I beg to differ. ;-) Why can't such "discernment-gifted" believers just talk to a brother/sister privately (like the Word says) and speak to him/her about what they "think" that they have "discerned?"I do that but not exactually in a 'private' setting, depending on 'what was seen'. But where does it say we need to 'privatly' discuss something discerned?When their "discernment" (or sometimes, "feelings" or "suspicions") are correct -- they offer it as proof to others of their gift. But when they are wrong, they just admit that they are human and prone to mistakes (rather than admitting that they really "missed it" badly. And sadly, they forget to see the damage that such false "discernment" can cause.I think, you've seen the false too much. I've seen SOME false. But, as it seems, not as much as you.If any of you hung out with me and my buddies. You'd be blown away. Because we walk in the supernatural. We don't see no 'dead being raised' cause none of us have the faith for that, but we walk in something that is GREATER than us. And none of us take any credit. EVERY time something happens FROM GOD, we give GOD the glory. I.e. "Wow, Look at what Jesus did through me". "I can't believe Jesus just casted that demon out!"etc.Sadly, I must admit that I have rarely encountered a person that publically claimed to have such a "gift" that actually did (or did not "misuse" it). It is often this way with many of the gifts. If a person is gifted with "healing," then why aren't they in the hospital or hospices? If a person is gifted with "prophecy," then why do they prophecy simple, generic words (that could apply to anything) rather than specific, heart-cutting truths? And why do they only prophecy to fellow believers? Instead, believers often settle for reputation instead of actual substance. Pentecostals and Charismatic believers would often rather place such "gifted" men/women on television.What you just said IS MY HEART. I've had such a personal revelation of God's power, when I see 'pentacostal/charasmatics' say they have this or that. And see no fruit. I die inside.Pentacost didn't happen for us to have a good time, it happened so that the world would see Him through His power.Instead, our Churches seem to be filled with men and women of reputation, that either fail in using the gift properly -- or that do not have the gift at all.Sad, but very true.Jimp says:hi,iam going to let those with the gift of discernment judge this but there is no gift of discernment.it is the gift of discernings of spirits because we wrestle NOT against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in high placesDiscern This is all the verses with 'discern' in it.Discerning is connected with: Knowledge, Wisdom, Judgement, 'seeing' from those verses.Discernment is something that 'tests' something and that 'something' either passes or fails. 1 John 4:1Example: One day I was up late at night and saw this preacher preaching. (Randomly going through all the channels) And I stopped, IMMEDIATLY I wanted to smash my T.V. (Sounds like rage huh?) I 'saw' into this man. I saw the LIES, DECEPTION, YUKKY-ness coming out of this man. I was like 'how in the world could someone be of the devil and try to lead the sheep astray?'.A month later, I found out that. That man stole the church's money a while back, disappeared and now has 're-appeared'. I never knew anything about this man. But God inclined my spirit about this. I had no knowledge, but the knowledge backed it up.Oh, and please, jimp. define 'gift of discerning of spirits' and 'gift of discernment'. Cause in my book they are the same thing.Blessings all.
My Joshua, I hope you're not accused of "talking too much". Anyhow, I'll have to take this just one step further.27 years ago, in an Assembly of God Bible College, there were Professors there, All of which were former Missionaries and All of which, Never taught "THE WORD OF GOD" ... without teaching it from the Greek. :-( I'm sorry I've felt I had to say that. But that's how we were taught about the gifts and every other subject in His Word.We had to Major in Greek in order to speak at all, in some callings. And Discernment was a high priority when they were at the helm, because of all the abuses they had seen by their ripe old age and the different countries they ministered in, that had so much demonic, etc. activity.Chris, your post was good again. God Bless you.All the Best to all.
hi, who said i am correct in my posts? i have been wrong so much in my life, why should i claim infalability? of spirits? of people?? seemed easy to me.jimp gift of gab: the ability to cmmunicate well.use the gift...
I just know we're told to love one another.That was why Paul sandwiched Chpt. 13 of 1Corth. in between the two chpt.s about the gifts ... 12 & 14.Our posts may not always "sound" like 'love' to some of us, but I believe most of us here do believe and feel that love.'Everyone' in His Body have gifts. We just need to understand & respect each other and our 'differences of expression'.Love to you brother,Thanks for that.annie