How about tithing nowadays?

I used to tithe...faithfully. I felt bad if I didn't. Then, I really began to examine the scriptures, and I saw that tithing is about on the same lines as circumcision - law. Now, I simply do what the NT tells me to do - give cheerfully, as I purpose in my own heart. My amount of giving has not really changed - although it's not necessarily systematic, it is much more ad hoc. But, I enjoy giving much more, and truly get to put my money where I believe God is moving and blessing.

Just a suggestion, but try a search on "Tithing" here, recall quite a few discussions on this.

I wonder if you feel that if tithing were renforced people would give more. Well, you then have something like our taxes, to which we all contribute - much more than a tenth of our income. If all of us could do with all our money what we really wanted to without any obligation from anyone - what would we do with it. That would be the test of our heart - our generosity, our trust in God to provide, our view of money.... and ultimately the genuineness of our faith. Diane

I like John Wesley's philosophy of giving: earn all you can, save all you can, and give all you can. Earn all you can- Idleness is the enemy of the soul, and we have much better things to do than just sit around and do nothing. Being that we are heavenly minded people, we need to make all the money we can.Save all you can- Don't flush your money down the toilet on a ton of frivolous luxuries (though that's not to say it's wrong to have any). Spend your money prayerfully, buying what you need for you and your family, some creature comforts, then save the rest.Give all you can- Being that it is hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven, and the love of money is the root of all evil, you are better off giving away whatever you don't need for yourself away to those in need, starting with the saints first, and then afterwards taking care of the heathen. In doing such you show your trust in the providence of God, and instead of simply stuffing your barns full, you empty them believing God will take care of your need should anything else arise. You will also save yourself many troubles.Very challenging! And Mr Wesley preached on this not a few times. He was very vocal about it. And he practiced it. He later lamented that he did not make this a required rule for the Methodist societies. He was always giving money away. According to Ravenhill, Wesley could've been a millionare had he kept all the money that came his way over his life, yet he died nearly broke. I wish I could be more like Wesley in this regard.

Hello...I still believe in tithing (please -- don't throw stones!). Its not that I believe that it is necessarily obligatory, but I believe that it is a good concept as set by Scripture. It is true that the New Testament does not identify the "tenth" as does the Old Testament. However, there are several verses that support laying aside a certain amount of money each week (according to one's income) and cheerfully giving that money for the Lord's work. Matthew 17:24-27Luke 20:251 Corinthians 9:13-141 Corinthians 16:1-21 Corinthians 9:15-222 Corinthians 2:17Malachi 3:8-12Leviticus 27:30I would never pass judgment on those that do not believe in tithing. In fact, I believe that it is sinful to judge those that do not or are unable to give. I also believe that modern society often associates a "tithe" with money. If you study the concept, you will find that it was not inclusive of "money." It included produce, products, service and labor. I believe that, when I give, I shouldn't "let my left hand know what my right hand is doing." I believe that our attitude should be to give "expecting nothing in return."I definitely do not believe in the legalistic "pay your tithe" type of concept. I also don't believe that I must be limited to the tenth either. The sad thing is that many modern believers feel that if they give their tithe -- they will be financially blessed and never struggle with income. How sad. I imagine that Paul was a definite "giver." But he also hungered (I Corinthians 4:101-13). It is both sad and amazing how this idea has crept into even non-prosperity churches. But I also believe that my bank account does not belong to me. It is on loan from the Lord. I have noticed that the Lord has sustained me -- even when I have given out of incredible need. :-(

The hungry bloated stomachs in Haiti for instance, unfortunately are not hit & miss but instead “systematically” require nutrition and this indeed does require financial support. How great it would be if the natural gas company in these parts would not be so systematic in reading my meter and sending me a bill, would be great!!!I understand the reaction against tithing for some, I remember years ago at a particular large inter-city Church. The Pastor and staff would drive up in new Sedan Deville’s and land in their reserved parking near the front door. Might not have bothered me so much had this been in an affluent suburban area, but in a financially depressed area with a good number of the congregation on food stamps, you get my point? In my estimation this was a legitimate concern, but I want to be cautious that I do not overcorrect in my reaction to abuses, and we all know and have heard of these abuses. And just as we don’t hear much of heroic honest deeds of citizens on ABC World News tonight but rather the negative, as well we don’t often hear of the faithful stewardship in regards to I think the majority of Churches as it pertains to finances. At the end of the day, the same door that we enter through, is the same door that is available to us to exit through should we find abuses. And the words “enforced tithing”, in my mind would be akin to “enforced” patience, or enforced love, or enforced humility etc….. No, we give because we love, we love because we give, we give to be obedient to the Word, we give to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked. Certainly God does not need our finances, but how do we live w/o His blessing that is associated with giving? And, having said that…… It is true, there are Churches that require a “record” of giving before they will allow you a position in the Church. And what you end up with are a few key people in leadership positions in a Church who know all the giving habits of all the parishioners, and how does this play out in their interaction and attitude towards those who are not giving as “required”? Surely it is time we put in place some safeguards., for men love to have control. Although we call it Spiritual Authority.I am for tithing, and I am for giving above that with offerings. And I really sense that many others feel the same way. They simply don’t want others “all up in our business.” I have advocated for a long time that Churches use completely independent third party accounting firms to handle the finances. As it is now, I say give anonymously with cash. Certainly God we can be sure is keeping real good records, and it is His blessings we need, it is His Windows of Heaven we need to be opened unto us, whether or not we have the blessing of a Church or not. It has been well established here and elsewhere that tithing was in existence long before God ever gave the Law. A cursory reading of Acts we find that many gave everything they had to the work of God. How is it, that we could actually rob God, would be my question? Maybe the answer would be we rob God of His opportunity to demonstrate that He is a God who keeps His promises. A God who rebukes the devourer, a God who blesses a hilarious giver, a God who can entrust us with the true riches as we are faithful with worldly wealth.tonys

This by the Associated Press;The number of megachurches with weekly attendance of 2,000 or more doubled over the past five years. The nations megachurches which now number 1,210, draw nearly 4.4 million people a week and collect more than $7 BILLION a year in donations.

I found something I agree with KK on, so I have to post! :-P LOL!Anyway, I don't think that tithing 10% is a rule that is set forth in scripture as firmly as many would preach from the pulpit. This is mostly a "Law" concept. However, the New Testament does have a lot to say about giving, and, as many here have noted, it is usually talking about people giving a lot more than 10%. I think the SPIRIT that we give in is so important!! Are we giving to God or to be noticed by men? Are we giving our 10% because it is the least required of us or are we worshipping God through giving Him control of our wallets?That said, my husband and I DO tithe. The reason is that 10% is a good starting point and we know that giving regularly and happily is the key--not emotionally or hit-and-miss. I pray that we will listen to God and give more as He leads (we also support some missionaries now). As pointed out here, some churches really do take this too far. My parents helped to start a church, only to have to leave a couple years later because they wouldn't sign a statement saying that ALL of their tith would go to that particular church ALL time. That really saddened me, as my parents have got to be some of the most giving people I know! Of course, our church DOES keep track of who gives what for tax purposes, but that is between the secretary and the computer and us. My husband is on the church council this year, and he has been really impressed with the handling of the money, and has never had to look over how much people are giving. I have to say that through his position this year we have started to give more to our church as we have started to realize just how much money it takes to keep the place up and running. It takes somewhere around $100,000 a year for salaries, utilities, insurance, etc--and that doesn't even count outreaches, benevolence funds, Sunday School, Youth, special functions, etc, etc. And keep in mind that our church is only somewhere around 175 people or so.I like this thread. Money is always a tricky issue and seems to be linked more closely to our hearts than we realize. Phebe

By the way, I do have a question. There is a verse in Matthew 23: 23 that says "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of you spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you hve neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." (Jesus talking to the Pharisees, of course)Does this verse mean that Jesus IS saying that we should tithe ("you should have practiced the former (tithing) without neglecting the latter (justice, mercy, and faithfulness))? Maybe I'm wrong...Phebe

Hi Tony,I enjoyed your post. I am impressed that you are so wanting to give "without your right hand knowing what your left is doing" that you give completely anonymously. Now, there are churches out there that post records of giving and use it for purposed they shouldn't (see my other posts on this thread). However, I hope you realize that most keep a record (hence the offering envelopes) for tax purposes. If the governmnet is offering not to tax God's money then I think we should consider taking them up on it. Anyway, I think that most churches (well, mine anyway--maybe I shouldn't say MOST), keep track of giving as a service out of the goodness of their hearts and not for malicious purposes.Phebe

Does anyone remember what Christ said in response to the lawyer's question as to what were the greatest of commandments??Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul mind and strength. IMHO, this includes [as the methodist credo goes] all of your time, treasures and talents. [Personally, I have tithed from the day that I discerned Jesus' desire for my gifts and I have never not been mightily blessed by our Lord. Again, it is not out of obligationbut of obedience to Gods will that I do this.]The second was Love your neighbor as you love yourself.When it comes to your money ... HOW do you show your love for your neighbor? Do you love enough to buy them the latest X-box / PSP or other electronic gadget when it comes out or a mocha latte' some morning on your way to work? Do you buy toys for the kids in the family down the street that is just scaping enough to put food on the table or pay the rent for the homeless family that is living out of their car? Your tithes do are not for OUR use but for God to bless to those who are in need. They bless us as we gift them to God for His stewards to use to His glory and honor. If your church is not glorifing and honoring God with their stewardship then immediately call them to task ... failing in that, shake the dust from your feet and find one that does. Yes, there are churches that allow their staff to abuse the gifts that are collected but they will have to answer to God for their selfishness, ingnorace of Jesus' commands and lack of stewardship.Again, if you cannot give cheerfully, then do not give, GOD does not want your obligatory castoffs. Remember the story of the widow and the pennies? She gave all that she had knowing that God would bless it and in her faith and love for God knew that He would not fail to supply her needs. Jesus called attention to this act of love because it was important, not to Him specifically but to the kingdom that was to come.One of Barna's surveys said last year that it would take 187 billion dollars to wipe our world hunger...and if the 'born-again Christians' of the USofA would actually 'tithe' they would raise 189 billion in one year!We are blessed by God with our personal talents and giftedness and blessed with the opportunity to earn a 'decent' wage not to bless ourselves but to bless others ... as Christ was given the power from His Father to come to deliver those he came in contact wit. All that He did while he was here on earth was to bring Honor and Glory to God. How many times does Jesus remind us that all of His power comes from God in His word?The cross was not about obligation to the Father ...it was the Joy of gifting us with eternal life with Him in heaven that put Jesus on the cross and held Him there. This was the greatest act of LOVE ever. Who/what are we worshipping when we do not Honor God with our obedience to His command to love our neighbors??? Where our treasure is... there too is our heart and our God.

I say give anonymously with cash. I think that it will come to this so as to avoid the "strings attatched". The time will come when the existing church will be a state church - government-controlled throuh incorporation, etc. This "unequally-yoked connection to the gov't is a compromose of allegiance. The tax deductions, may save money and encourage giving, but it may cost in the long run. The Spriit is not free to work, and the church is legally obligated to abide by gov't law (ex tolerance issues etc)Another issue on giving: Is giving to the church in order to improve or enlarge the building not really giving back to ourselves (which I don't object to). But we can assume that the building is synonomous with God. Love your neighbor as you love yourself. When it comes to your money ... HOW do you show your love for your neighbor? Do you love enough to buy them the latest X-box / PSP or other electronic gadget when it comes out or a mocha latte' some morning on your way to work? Do you buy toys for the kids in the family down the street that is just scaping enough to put food on the table or pay the rent for the homeless family that is living out of their car?This is the spirit of giving - though not a legititmate tax deduction. I believe that giving personally to those in need fosters accountablity and relationship and lets people see Christ. One of Barna's surveys said last year that it would take 187 billion dollars to wipe our world hunger...and if the 'born-again Christians' of the USofA would actually 'tithe' they would raise 189 billion in one yeaWow! No doubt many could give much more than ten percent, and some could give nothing, and some would be encouraged and strengthened by receiving.Diane

I heard Todd Friel (Way of the Master Radio www.wayofthemasterradio.com) talk about this once. He said under the law they had to give 10% (which all of you have said), but that wasn't considered anything to God, that anything they actually gave to the Lord as GIFTS (which is what we give today) was what they gave above 10%. So "tithing" wasn't really anything to feel good about.Now I have a question: In the OT they apportioned part of the people's giving for upkeep of the temple. You could use that to support what churches do today. But since there the new temple is our bodies, and the churches in the new testament were houses or public areas, should we be doing that today? Should our churches be built in such a way as to require our $$ for upkeep?As for what I think about tithing, the jury is still out in my heart.

Does this verse mean that Jesus IS saying that we should tithe ("you should have practiced the former (tithing) without neglecting the latter (justice, mercy, and faithfulness))? Maybe I'm wrong...Indeed, Jesus is telling the Pharisees in along with justice, mercy, and faithfulness, that they should practice tithing and the like. However, the Pharisees were majoring in tithing, when Jesus taught that the "weightier matters of the law" were not about tithing (a minor point in his eyes), but justice, mercy and faithfulness were. However, notice he does say tithing is "of the Law." Of course, Jesus, being the God-fearing Jew that He was, would have paid tithes and encouraged the payment of them. Jesus always encouraged obedience to the Law of Moses. This verse however, cannot be used to support tithing under the New Covenant, as the New Covenant was not yet established.

Now I have a question: In the OT they apportioned part of the people's giving for upkeep of the temple. You could use that to support what churches do today. But since there the new temple is our bodies, and the churches in the new testament were houses or public areas, should we be doing that today? Should our churches be built in such a way as to require our $$ for upkeep?This is actually not correct. Every instance of tithing in the OT has to do with feeding the priests/levites/widows/orphans/etc. It had NOTHING to do with upkeep for the temple, or even providing a home for the levites and such to live in. It was strictly for food purposes.

This verse however, cannot be used to support tithing under the New Covenant, as the New Covenant was not yet established.This is a tough one for me because I believe folk ought to support their local assembly with tithe and offering; but to make it a 'law' is going too far. Abraham paid tithe, but he also circumcised and that was seriously dealy with in Galatians as a matter of 'law'. The question is, biblically, where should the tithe go to and to whom? In the OT it went to the Temple treasury. There is no Temple now and their are no priests.Personally I think it an awesome and solumn proposition that I personally would 'receive tithes'. The implications of it are staggering.

I have an odd question, as it relates to abuses in regards to finances. Has anyone ever looked into the “money bag” that Judas was responsible for. We might say Judas was the treasurer, and obviously it was known he was cooking the books because we have it recorded he was helping himself to the money. Yet apparently there were no checks and balances, and it was allowed to continue?Was this money only income from what the disciples had earned, was a portion donations, part of both or neither? Was this money dispersed for the groups livelihood having all things in common, was it used for the benevolence of others?This sort of thing today, when exposed finds a place on John Stossel’s “Give me a break” segment.tonys

Now I have a question: In the OT they apportioned part of the people's giving for upkeep of the temple. You could use that to support what churches do today. But since there the new temple is our bodies, and the churches in the new testament were houses or public areas, should we be doing that today? Should our churches be built in such a way as to require our $$ for upkeep?King Jimmy's response: This is actually not correct. Every instance of tithing in the OT has to do with feeding the priests/levites/widows/orphans/etc. It had NOTHING to do with upkeep for the temple, or even providing a home for the levites and such to live in. It was strictly for food purposes. I could very well be wrong. But I am almost positive I read it. It was a few years back, so the details are fuzzy. It might have been somewhere in the minor prophets, but I really can't remember. If I am wrong, I apologize for even asking the question. I will try to find the reference *I think* I read :-)

Remember too that 'tithing' in the OT was 23 1/2 %!Chapter 7 How Much Tithe? 10%, 20%, or 23 1/3%? (pp. 58-65)QUESTION 19: Doesn't God command us to give Him 10% of our total income, and then expect us to give free-will offerings in addition to our tithes?ANSWER: Actually, God commanded Israelite landowners and herdsmen within Israel's borders to give THREE tithes. :-o The first was for the support of the Levites and Aaronic priesthood (Num. 18); the second was for national religious festivals and was eaten by all (Deut. 12:1-19 and 14:22-26); and the third was every third year for the poor and strangers (Deut. 14:28-29 and 26:12-13)---a total of 23 1/3% yearly, plus the king's tenth!:eek: For landowners and herdsmen, above the 23 1/3% was a freewill offering. For others, everything was a freewill offering. [ Should the Church Teach Tithing A Theologian's Conclusions about a Taboo Doctrine, originally a Ph.D. dissertation, by Russell Earl Kelly.] I do not agree with Kelly's final assertions about tithing but he did do his research!

Hi Tony,Was this money only income from what the disciples had earned, was a portion donations, part of both or neither? Was this money dispersed for the groups livelihood having all things in common, was it used for the benevolence of others?Good question. I think we could say they did not always have money as they paid their way once with a coin from the fishes mouth. Given the fact that Judas was willing to do anything to get money, I think that is worth considering. What did he do with that laundered money? Did he have his own personal stash somewhere? Judas did say once that the money made from the sale of the costly perfume could have been given to the poor. I suppose that suggests that they did give some of what they had to the poor. The thing I can't get past is how fearful it is to handle money that people have given as a sacrifice (as it were) sacrificially unto the Lord. Not to me, but as unto the Lord. I suppose we have been trusted with the Gospel also in a similar way in which we are accountable. I guess what I am saying is, I would not want the handling of moneys offered to the Lord on my conscience; especially if I were receiving that in the form of tithe. :-?

tithing? I think about the only ones you ever hear bring that up much anymore are the TV Preachers, ours don't. I thought the word said that the tithe belongs to the Lord well if we give it to the Pastor he is not God and if you are say well technically it goes to the Church well the Church is not God either, so my idea of tithing is give your money to the needy yourself, because the word says when you give to the least you are giving to me so there now you are giving to God according to the word.LEVITICUS 27:30 NKJ 30 `And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's

The tithe was to tend to the the Levites whose job it was to tend to the Lord's tabernacle and to minister unto Him therin. the levites didn't have a share in the land of egypt nor did they work the lands like everyone else so the 10% which everyone gave was to take care of them and their families. i used to think we had to tithe till the Lord showed it to me that we're not. when He had me go through the o.t. i saw this and then when i hear all the different preachers on t.v. and eveywhere else talking about you need to tithe, it's all rubbish. tithing is in the o.t. and i've oft heard it said that the o.t. doesn't apply any more (more rubbish, the law doesn't justify us but the law is still fulfilled through Christ living in us)then why bring back the tithe if it's o.t?we should give firstfruits offerings cheerfully of which there is no set amount i'm aware of and we should give as we can cheerfully like sis diane said but also it's important to observe what the early church did in acts chapt 2 42-47. Those who joined the church sold their possessions and distributed the money according to everyone's need and the key here is that in vs 34 of chapt 4 is that noone wanted for anything at all. He're what we really should be doing right here, selling what we own and sharing what we get from it so that noone is in need. of course this was not just random but a function of Holy Spirit moving in them and among them for God's glory. they brethren in those days lived communally and my stuff was your stuff was our stuff. of course right now very few if any Christians would be open to such sharing but then again we live in a country such that this idea is a bit looney, given the issues of communes in the 60s and so on. in time we too will be compelled to do as such and live together because of meager supplies due to an economic collapse here. imagine bubbaguy and philologos sharing lodgings and food (used as an example of 2 people who oft disagree) and such. this would not be just sharing for the sake of sharing but a sharing brought about by the movement of Holy Spirit because under any other circumstance that wouldn't happen, this way we KNOW it's God.now that kinda sharing IS New Testament, i wonder why that's not being preached by those who so strongly advocate that everyone tithe...perhaps that way they can line their pockets and live in luxury? i wonder how many of them tithe their 10% anyway :-(

This verse however, cannot be used to support tithing under the New Covenant, as the New Covenant was not yet established.I'm not sure this makes sense. Can we ever give a New Covenant law to an unredeemed person - even today? The Pharisees were not living by the Spirit and THAT'S why they could not be led by the Spirit. They had no Spirit, and no heart of God. That's why they neglected the poor and instead wanted everyone to give to their beloved temple and to them. (But, they were sure tithing!)Now, I realize that we live in the "age of the New Covenant", but let's be honest - how many of our church folk actually live by the Spirit. How many are truly born of the Spirit. It has already been established in other discussions here that many are NOT true followers of Christ. So how can we tell them to follow the law of the Spirit when it comes to giving - like maybe sharing all their possessions. It seems clear that we are not to put ourselves under any old covenat law - because instead we follow the Law of the Spirit. There seems to be no instructions for those not born again. I think our religious leaders have been using the tithe law to fill in the gap - to appeal to the consciences of the masses of religous people who want to live by law and not grace. And it works fabulously - they get the money they want, and the tither gets his/her guilt absolved. And this keeps our churches and TV evangelist programs going.... Diane