I have been thinking about this topic much in the last few weeks and today in the thread about which version open-air preachers should use (Open Air Preaching; what bible version to use?)just reminded me to start a thread. This may sound like an obvious question, but there are so many philosopies I would love to hear some imput. How do we preach to sinners?Ravenhill once said that the main hinderence to revival is evangelism. Why? Do we preach differently to sinners, than to saints? What is the thrust of our message to sinners? So many focus on Law. Some focus on Grace. Some on the resurection. Is there anything that needs to preface the preaching of the Gospel? I'm very familar with Ray Comfort, so no need to reference me to him. I think there are some who disagree with the use of the 'Law' or atleast the terminology. This would be a great place to express your thoughts on this topic.I'm just throwing some thoughts out there and hoping someone will run with it... What think ye?
Preaching to Sinners vs Saints
I have had a change in venue when it comes to telling sinners or saints what happens when a person believes in the Lord Jesus. I used to listen to the usual churchianity, as to come to church and give your life to Jesus, read your bible, be baptized, get involved in a ministry in the church, pray every morning at 4:30, etc, etc, etc. What does scripture say, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. This sounds so easy. But, you and I and most people who seek to tell people about Jesus Christ and evangelize them, that is not the way it is. Of course this is the witness. John 3:15-19 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.It says always be ready with an answer for the Hope that Is in you. 1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"Every man that asketh," This sounds like if a person asks, then we are to give a reason, which is our earthly thoughts of Who and what Jesus has done in us as Christians. My thoughts are, I am a new creature in Christ Jesus and I have been given a new birth, it is no longer the old I that is living this life, but by being born again of water and Spirit, which is God Himself in Christ Jesus being put in my spirit and now He is my life. Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. How much more do I have to do to have eternal life? I think that is it. 1 John 5:9-12 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.Simple, not really, it is like saying ok Phillip has as new person in him which is preacher Parsley and everything Phillip says from now on will be Preacher Parsley's words and all that Phillip does is Preacher Parsley's doing. Woops, Phillip does not want to allow this because he is afraid he will loose who he is and the old Phillip wants to fight to keep who he is. Then by The love of Preacher Parsley, Phillip begins to understand, this person that is in me and wants to take over my life is not so bad after all, He wants me to keep who I am and who I was intended to be when He created me. Knowing this I loose nothing but gain the right to say I am a son of Preacher Parsley who is not my real life with the nature which I could never attend to before He exchanged my life for His. Now I am Phillip Preacher Parsley. This maybe stretching it a bit but who am I really? I am Phillip Christ. I am Phillip with a new Life in me and that life is Christ Jesus and am now a part of the Family for whom I was intended to be before the foundation of the world. A Christ Person or as you will, a Christian. I don't have to do anything to be who I am. But I want to do everything to become who I was intended to be. All I had to do to have eternal life and become a complete new person is believe it and that is who I am. Now that I have all the capacity to become a new person in Christ Jesus, I will do all in my life to become this Person who God, the Father and Oneness with His Son Jesus Christ created me to be in the beginning, "let US create man in OUR Image. I don't have to do all the things that man say I have to do to become a good Christian, that is the earthly church. Because I by my birthing am all the things that God is by the Christ that is in me. Oh yes, This Birth has also a great Teacher Whom the Father has given me to bring this new birthed Christ in me to fruition that I might be truly a son of God, and that is The Holy Spirit of God Himself Whom this Christ that is in me Has Requested of His Father to come and reveal this truth in me. Is my salvation secure? Is my revelation of these truth secure? Who am I? Ah, I am a full fledged son of God, this is who I am. What do I have to do? This is pertaining to the resurrection but it applies in all that we do because of the Life of Christ in us The Hope of Glory. 2 Timothy 2:19-26 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.This is the Great House you become a part of is you will accept the Lord Jesus by believing that He is the Son of God, you will be saved. This is your assurance of salvation, not what you do but by Who You Are. A Christ Person with a whole new life Born Again in you. Now work out this salvation with fear and trembling knowing God Himself in now your Life.I believe this is the simple Gospel, and we should wait for God to send them to us, seeking Him that we might tell all He sends what this Miracle is. Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.In Christ: Phillip
Preaching to saints sounds like "preaching to the quire" but I know that isn't the case. We need the wole Word of God with balance in evrything, warnings, encouragements, teaching, repemands, exetra...The sinner first must know why they need to be saved because they see no reason for it. Accept for the one who already have the Holy Spirit working on him.Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:(a difference between the one who needs the Law or not, the Law brings fear of God):23 And others save with fear(of Gods' Judgment from the Law), pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.The ones who needs compassion is when the Gosple of salvation should be given because they are ready and know why thay need to be saved.
Just a note on John 3:16. I think it has been ripped out of context in every modern gospel presentation. We preach it. Jesus didn't. The only record we have of Jesus saying this was to ONE person. Nicodemus, who knew that he was condemned by the Law, came to Christ (fearfully). Jesus then opened him to the gospel telling of God's love. As far as we know, Jesus NEVER preached such a thing to ANYONE else, let alone crowds of prideful, sinloving heathen.Just one persons perspective on preaching the love of God.ps. remember Peter's sermon on the first Pentecost following the Resurrection? he never told them how to be saved until they ASKED!
Joh 3:16Verse 16. For God so loved. This does not mean that God approved the conduct of men, but that he had benevolent feelings toward them, or was earnestly desirous of their happiness. God hates wickedness, but he still desires the happiness of those who are sinful. He hates the sin, but loves the sinner. A parent may love his child and desire his welfare, and yet be strongly opposed to the conduct of that child. When we approve the conduct of another, this is the love of complacency; when we desire simply their happiness, this is the love of benevolence.The world. All mankind. It does not mean any particular part of the world, but man as man--the race that had rebelled and that deserved to die. See Joh 6:33; 17:21. His love for the world, or for all mankind, in giving his Son, was shown by these circumstances:1st. All the world was in ruin, and exposed to the wrath of God.2nd. All men were in a hopeless condition.3rd. God gave his Son. Man had no claim on him; it was a gift--an undeserved gift.4th. He gave him up to extreme sufferings, even the bitter pains of death on the cross.5th. It was for all the world. He tasted "death for every man," Heb 2:9. He "died for all," 2Co 5:15. "He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world," 1Jo 2:2.That he gave. It was a free and unmerited gift. Man had no claim; and when there was no eye to pity or arm to save, it pleased God to give his Son into the hands of men to die in their stead, Ga 1:4; Ro 8:32; Lu 22:19. It was the mere movement of love; the expression of eternal compassion, and of a desire that sinners should not perish forever.John 17:20-21 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?Only-begotten. This term is never applied by John to any but Jesus Christ. It is applied by him five times to the Saviour, Joh 1:14; 3:16,18; 1Jo 4:9. It means literally an only child. Then, as an only child is peculiarly dear to a parent, it means one that is especially beloved.It looks to me like the rest of scripture makes John 3:16 a proof of what God has done for those that believe and receive Him as Savior. That new birth is what God intended for those that believe, For God so loves that we might have everlasting life.His only-begotten Son. Cmt. on Joh 1:14. This is the highest expression of love of which we can conceive. A parent who should give up his only son to die for others who are guilty--if this could or might be done--would show higher love than could be manifested in any other way. So it shows the depth of the love of God, that he was willing to give his only Son into the hands of sinful men that he might be slain, and thus redeem them from eternal sorrow.He Gave. Praise you Father that you so loved that You Gave. None of us deserves such Great Love, may we, every one thank you for all eternity for Who You are and what you have done In Christ Jesus the Only Begotten Son of God.{n} "For God" 1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.Albert Barns: Notes on the Bible.In Christ: Phillip
Just a note on John 3:16. I think it has been ripped out of context in every modern gospel presentation. We preach it. Jesus didn't. The only record we have of Jesus saying this was to ONE person. Nicodemus, who knew that he was condemned by the Law, came to Christ (fearfully). Jesus then opened him to the gospel telling of God's love. As far as we know, Jesus NEVER preached such a thing to ANYONE else, let alone crowds of prideful, sinloving heathen.How far do you take that? Can we only preach to crowds what Jesus preached to the crowds? That would leave out a lot of the New Testement. Should the Epistles be preached to sinners? I know that they were written to saints, but there are many passaged that are directed towards sin. What is the "Message" to sinners? God is angry? God loves you? REPENT!? Ofcourse the simple, and truthful answer is "be led by the Spirit." I'm just wondering what you guys think. Our philosophy on evangelism is VERY important.
Preach, no I don't think we should limit just to what Jesus preached, I was just throwing in my two cents to make a point that I think many of us focus too much on the love of God, giving it improper balance in evangelism. Alot of people think Jesus preached to the world about God's love when he really often only told those who were sincere about following Him. I was advocating a principle based on my "just a note..." not a method or rule ;-)
God hates wickedness, but he still desires the happiness of those who are sinful. He hates the sin, but loves the sinner.Christinyou, I'm not so sure God desires "happiness" of the sinful. Could you clarify what you mean? He desires obedience, worship, service, but I don't think he save Paul or Peter or me or you so we could be "happy". In fact He saved Paul to "show him what great things he must suffer for My sake" (Acts 9:16).As far as God loving the sinner but hating the sin, are you implying that God doesn't hate the sinner? Ps 5:5, Ps 11:5, Pr 6:16-19, Hosea 9:15.God does hate the sinner, but He also loves them, which is why He sent His Son :-)
Phl 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. Happiness is a word, true happiness is a state. The State of being full of Joy in all things for this is the will of God for you in Christ Jesus.James 1:2-4 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.I think wanting nothing and having all in Christ would be a pretty good definition of Happy or Joy. This is happiness: Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy [are ye]; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. God does not see the sin anymore, He see's Christ and His Blood that fell on the altar of This Earth at the foot of the Cross and every drop that fell from the scourging to the Nails. God hates sin and it will be judged but only because the person did not believe in the Son of God, or God's Word is wrong...Jhn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.Those who are not convicted and reproofed of this will stay in sin because they did not believe in the Shed Blood of the Lamb. They are in the old covenant, If you sin you shall surely die. That is the Holy Spirits work. Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:In Christ: Phillip
What is the thrust of our message to sinners? So many focus on Law. Some focus on Grace. Some on the resurection. Is there anything that needs to preface the preaching of the Gospel? J. O. Fraser, a well known missionary to the Lisu in China of the China Inland mission in the early part of the last century, and who saw the Lord move greatly among them, had a wornderful word in his biography, taken from a letter to his mother:"In preparing my address, I first went through the Acts of the Apostles and some other passages, comparing them with a view to finding out the actual Gospel we are bidden to preach... The result was very instructive to me. I had never imagined the Gospel was so simple. Why, Peter and Paul both preached the gospel in words which would not take one minute to say!And I found out that there are just four things which seem to be essential in preaching the Gospel.1. The crucifixion of Jesus Christ - no theological explanation needed.2. The ressurrection of Jesus Christ - most important of all. The Gospel was never preached without this being brought in.3. Exortation to hearers to repent of their sins..4. Promise to all who believe on Jesus Christ that they will recieve remission of sins.Beyond these four points others are mentioned occasionally, but they are not many... In teaching Christians it is another matter. To them we are to declare "the whole council of God", as far as they can recieve it. But the Gospel as preached to the unsaved is as simple as it could be. I should not care to take the responsibility of preaching "another gospel"."J. O . Fraser, Behind the Ranges -Frasure of Lisuland by Mrs. Howard Taylor.And this being so, It must also be understood that because of the hardness of men's hearts, in different periods of church history, the Spirit had different emphasises needed to counteract degradation that had come into the church.For instance, following the reformation and the Puritan era, stale orthodoxy and formalism had crept into the church and so the Lord impressed those in the Great awakening the need to emphasis the necissity of the New Birth to shake up those who merely had an intellectual knowlege of doctrine but no regeneration. And so often times it is necessary based on conditions to speak more on one point than another.But in essence the Gospel is always the same, Our lost condition, Christ's Person and work (crucifixion and resurrection) and the neccesity for us to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. And this issues in the New Birth."In the last days. I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh... and it shall be that whosoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved."
Preaching to saints sounds like "preaching to the quire" but I know that isn't the case. We need the wole Word of God with balance in evrything, warnings, encouragements, teaching, repemands, exetra...I think this is our greates fallacy in modern Christianity. We think that "preaching to saints is preaching to the choir" so to speak. But if the goal of the gospel were merely to save the lost to take them to heaven, then that may be true. But that is not the goal of the gospel."God desires that all men be saved and come to a full knowlege of the truth."The whole of the New Testament is not written to the lost or the heathen, it is written to belivers. There is not one single epistle written to anyone but believers.God's goal is not just to save sinners but to produce mature, full grown sons of God, sanctified, transformed, and conformed to the image of the First Born Son of God.God's goal is the body of Christ to be a living organism, and His expression on the earth. And to accomplsh this it is needed to "feed my lambs". The goal of evangilism is to enlarge the body of Christ and the goal of ministry is to build up the body of Christ, to "grow up in all things into Christ who is the head" and to present each man complete in Christ, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.Modern Evangelism is short sighted thinking that "being saved from hell" is the goal of the gospel. But that is not the goal by a long shot. The goal is in "bringing many sons to Glory".Paul to the Galations did not say, "I am again in travail till you add more to your church." He said, "I am again in travial till Christ be formed in you.It is one thing to be saved, regenerated, born of God and possessing the Life of God. It is quite another to grow in that Life to mature sons of God, living by Him, expressing Him and expressing Him as a full grown, functioning member of the body of Christ. And to grow in this Life, we need the ministry of Christ, the daily communion with Him, the feeding on Him as the Bread of Heanven through His word, calling on Him hourly as our breath, and drinking of Him continually to quench our thirst. We need to learn to abide in Him moment by moment as branches in the Vine to dwew the Divine Sap from the vine in order to bear fruit. And it is only in this way that true remaining fruit is borm. You can teach anyone to preach a gospel message, but only a person transformed by the Spirit into the image of Christ, filled with Christ and living by Christ can preach the gospel effectively and in power and produce genuine fruit which remains.And to be such a person we need the constant care, the nurturing, the feeding of Christ, and the fellowship of the body of Christ to perfect us and to be transformed.In fact the gifted ones, according to Ephesians 4 are given to the church for the perfecting of the Saints unto the work of the ministry. The ministry is to be carried out by the saints.Those who He forknew, He did also predestinate to be conformed to the Image of His Son, that He might be the First Born among many brothers." (Romand 8:29).Graftedbranch
Quote:"a principle based on my "just a note..." not a method or rule"This is the whole of John 3:16; John 3:15-19 That whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.This is what we are baptized into; 1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.And, Mar 10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? Mar 10:39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:And, Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? And finally; Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. Where is He? He is baptized into as many that believe, and we have put on Christ.In Christ: Phillip
1. The crucifixion of Jesus Christ - no theological explanation needed.2. The ressurrection of Jesus Christ - most important of all. The Gospel was never preached without this being brought in.3. Exortation to hearers to repent of their sins..4. Promise to all who believe on Jesus Christ that they will recieve remission of sins.I would agree with that and have lately really tried to hit all 4, if possible, when open air preaching. I say if possible because not everyone sticks around for a whole message. 1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.Philo brought this up in another thread.Since this is true, how should that effect our preaching to sinners? Or should it? Do we just pray that the Spirit would open their eyes? or do we take a different approach?
I think preaching Christ and His death burial and resurrection and Assention and His coming back to this earth in the temple of His people which is the being born again part of scripture Jesus said must take place if anyone is to know the things of Heaven. This is the Gospel that will change lives of those that God has sent to all those that preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I don't see the preaching of repentance and baptism and law as bring anyone to Christ. I see this as a way for man to reach salvation by what he does. Salvation can only come by God the Father drawing those who are to be saved and convicted by the Holy Spirit. Preach Christ and Him crucified and this is all they need to know. Then all else will come as they grow in Christ. Then they will know what repentance, baptism are by the Holy Spirit is teaching them about the Jesus that has been born again in them. The must know that they have all of the tools they will ever need to work out their salvation with fear and trembling, that is great awe at what has and is happening to them by the Christ that is in them, being taught by the Holy Spirit Himself who this Christ is and they have become son's of God by because of The Son of God, Jesus Christ who is not their life and glory. They can do nothing more than to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and all these things will be added unto them. So what is the first thing for the unsaved and the misguided believer? Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.1Cr 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. If Jesus by direct revelation to Paul teaches only Christ and Him Crucified, it should be good for all preaching to all people. Paul always taught Christ and Him Crucified first and if they believed, then their repentance and baptism was sure in Christ not in the works of repentance and baptism. 1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord, Not in works that anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.Finally, what will do the Job? Ephesians 2:21-22 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.In Christ by the Holy Spirit.IN Christ: PhillipCol 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
I don't see the preaching of repentance and baptism and law as bring anyone to Christ. I see this as a way for man to reach salvation by what he does. Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. Mar 1:16 Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. Mar 1:17 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men. Mar 1:18 And straightway they forsook their nets, and followed him.Do you think I am reading too much into it if I say that Jesus preached repentance and it wasn't long after that he had disciples?Preach Christ and Him crucified and this is all they need to know. What do you mean by this? You don't think we should just say, "Jesus died for your sins?" Do you?I guess I would need to know what you mean by "preaching Christ." I would say if you preach Christ you must preach all aspects of His character. His hate for sin, holiness, righteousness, love, and grace. And if you do that you inevitably will preach repentance and remission of sin.
i think it might be benificial(cause it took me a while to find these and i think they are the model given; as most here have already stated) to have some examples so i'm gonna post some of the messages that were preached: Mark 1:14-18 Acts 2:14-41 Acts 3:11-26 Acts 4:33?
I think preaching Christ and His death burial and resurrection and Assention and His coming back to this earth in the temple of His people which is the being born again part of scripture Jesus said must take place if anyone is to know the things of Heaven. This is the Gospel that will change lives of those that God has sent to all those that preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Your question Preacher: "Do you think I am reading too much into it if I say that Jesus preached repentance and it wasn't long after that he had disciples?"What do you mean by this? You don't think we should just say, "Jesus died for your sins?" Do you?Does what I wrote before your question sound like we should preach anything except Christ and Him Crucified. I think Paul is very clear in his preaching when it comes to Christ and The Hope of Glory we receive when we are born again. I am what I am by the I Am that is in me. I am what I am not by what I do but by who I am. We stand perfect before God the Father and nothing we do will change our standing before God, all sinners and especially the new born Christian need to know this. If I had been told when I was saved and believed on the Lord Jesus as my Savior, that I am now perfect before God the Father by the birthing of Christ Jesus in me the Hope of Glory, and I cannot get any more of Him than I already have. I believe this would have given me the greatest incentive of all to bring my mind into knowing Him more than any works I could have done. If I ask the Father for Bread, He won't give me a stone. If I trust the Holy Spirit to teach me all thing in bring my mind to the Mind of Christ, I believe He will do it. If This Gospel of Paul would have been preached to me when I first became a Christian, it would have saved a lot of confusion and frustration and me trying to show the world I was a Christ Person by what I did instead of who I was in Christ. What I do will never make me a better Christian, but knowing who I am will and who it is that is in me and allowing His Mind to come forth from me then my works will show my Faith. 1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.Philippians 3:14-21 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.I don't think that this is leaving anything out that pertains to life and Godliness in Christ Jesus. 2 Timothy 3:14-17 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.This is not what most of the Churches are preaching. They are preaching a doctrine of Works Righteousness and our faith and repentance and baptism, (I am not abdicating no repentance or baptism, but knowing by the Mind of Christ what we should repent from and baptized into.)being what saves us. Galatians 2:16-20 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.This is the Word of God and I think it is very clear how we should preach to everyone, sinner or saved.Christ In You The Hope of Glory: Phillip
Mark 1:14-18 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men. And straightway they forsook their nets, and followed him.Very good scripture. Jesus was the Kingdom come on this earth, It is Jesus of Nazareth in the flesh. To them He called, they will listen. These are those that the Father had given Him that He said none were lost but the son of perdition, and that only to fulfill the scripture. They followed Him. It happens the same way today The Father gives us to Him and He calls and we Hear His Voice, we are His Sheep. He will not loose any of us either unless it is to fulfill scripture. We know Him no longer as a man but as God in us. 2Cr 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.He is not Jesus of Nazareth anymore but the glorified Christ that is come in mortal flesh.He was Jesus of Nazareth but no longer is He in flesh except His Temple, us. also housing the Holy Spirit and abiding with the Father also.2Cr 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more. Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.In Christ: Phillip
Preach,I do not have the time to read this entire thread but will give my two cents worth.When I counseled clients at CPC, I did not know often how I would talk to her, but instead I asked her some questions and waited in my spirit for the LORD to lead me. Brother, I think this is the way YOU need to preach! You wait on the Spirit! I have had clients who had problems we were not even trained to deal with, but the Holy Spirit did not mind! He just told me what to say and I did! Me thinks this principle applies here with you! Easy? you bet! But it requires a close walk with the Savior. I like to say I often walked on water in dealing with issues at CPC. And BTW, I did not try to remember what I told the client because I knew the HS would do a repeat performance! and he did! PTL!!!ginnyrose
ginnyrose: How true in counseling, only the Holy Spirit can reveal what is needed for those seeking truth and help. AmenIn Christ: Phillip
re:How do we preach to sinners.2 Peter 3:1,2By having our pure minds stired by way of remerance:that we may be mindful of the wordswhich were spoken before by the holy prophets,and by the commandments of the apostles of our Lord and Saviour.By which we receive the words from the HolySpirit that we should speak.
I guess I would need to know what you mean by "preaching Christ." I would say if you preach Christ you must preach all aspects of His character. His hate for sin, holiness, righteousness, love, and grace. And if you do that you inevitably will preach repentance and remission of sin.To preach Christ is to preach Him in all His Person and work as the incarnated Son of God, the manifestation of God in the flesh, crucified for our sins, raised from the dead and now as the Life Giving Spirit to indwell us and make us sons of God through faith in Him.The gospel is not to turn your life around and be good. The gospel is Jesus Christ.The gospel is 'repent toward God and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. What is it that we repent from? It is an independant Life apart from God whether a good or bad life, it is an independant life.What is it to repent to? Repentance is toward God. That is to turn from a Self centered, a Self sufficient, a self realized Life and to come to God to recieve from Him eternal Life in Christ and to live by that Life.The gospel is Christ who is our redemption, our holiness, our rightousness, and our indwelling Life.To preach Christ is not to preach the Law which is unto death, but to preach a crucified and resurrected Christ who makes us sons of God through faith in Him and who regenerates us and indwells us and become to us everything.Any true preaching of Christ leads us to appreciate Him, to see something of Him, to know our need of Him, our condition apart from Him and to take Him, to recieve Him, and to live by Him. The gospel is not about deeds which we have done in rightousness, but the Christ whom we believe into, and who indwells us and who seeks to live out from within us as the Life Giving Spirit to manifest the attributes of God through us in our human virtues.The gospel is about regeneration through faith and the operation of God in our spirit to make us sons of God brining the Life and nature of God into us.The gospel is Jesus Christ. It is not the Law. The Law can only condemn, it cannot give Life, but Christ is the embodiment of God and through faith in Him we are regenerated and born of God to be His children with His Life. The Gospel teaches us to live by Christ by recognizing that" He who is joined to the Lord I s one spirit (1 cor. 6:17) and fellowshipping with Him, by knowing Him, by feeding on Him in His Word, by living by Him.The gospel brings us into an organic union with the Son of God. It brings us into the True Vine as branches deriving our LIfe from the Vine. It brings us into an organic union with the living resurrected Christ who lives in us. Galatians 2:20 "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ Lives in me and the Life I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God who loved me and give Himself for me"."YOu have died to the Law through the body of Christ that you might be joined to Another, even to Him who was raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit to God."That I might be found in Him, not having a rightousness of my own derived from Law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the rightousness which comes from God on the basis of faith. That I may know Him, and the power opf His resurrection, and the fellowship of His suffering being conformed to His death..."This is the gospel of Christ and this is the true preaching of Christ as our redeemer and our indwelling Life and Lord.Graftedbranch
Graftedbranc wrote:What is it to repent to? Repentance is toward God. That is to turn from a Self centered, a Self sufficient, a self realized Life and to come to God to recieve from Him eternal Life in Christ and to live by that Life.I have this strange notion. Maybe the best thing to preach to sinners is "What is sin?" I used to think that sin was violating or breaking the Law. I couldn't figure out why I felt guilty when I had not broken any laws. NT:264 hamartano (ham-ar-tan'-o); perhaps from NT:1 (as a negative particle) and the base of NT:3313; properly, to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), i.e. (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin:(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)Sin, to aim and shoot at a goal or mark on a target and miss (without quantifying the severity of the miss) so that no prize (reward) is given. Now that is a definition I could understand. Of course the problem then is "what is the mark?"Rom 14:23 "whatsoever is not of faith is sin." ASVSo now I have the mark, the goal. Alas, "what is faith?"Heb 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned (of God) concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith." ASVSo faith must be hearing God's voice, believing what He says, and then acting upon whatever He says. Now I understand why I felt guilty. Sin is not listening to God or not beleiving what He says, or choosing not to act upon what I say I believe.So how do I hear God's voice? Here is what is really missing from our preaching. Jesus Christ did not come to save us from Hell. Jesus Christ came to save us to something. John 10:10 I came that they may have life , and may have (it) abundantly. ASVJohn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, (even) Jesus Christ. ASVJohn 6:63 the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life . ASVJohn 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. ASVCol 1:19-20 For it was the good pleasure (of the Father) that in him should all the fulness dwell;and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, ASV2 Cor 5:18-19 But all things are of God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ, and gave unto us the ministry of reconciliation; to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation. ASV"The word of reconciliation" the message of intimacy with Father God, Creator of the Universe, is the one message that separates Christianity from every religion on earth. Why do we preach Christ crucified without declaring why He was crucified? The "Kingdom of God is at hand" is a message that every person on earth needs to hear. Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the Son of David, came not to re-establish Israel, the nation, as His throne. He came to open our hearts that He might come in to reign and abide.John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. ASVNow that is an understanding of repentance that I can comprehend, to have changed thoughts, changed beliefs and therefore a changed direction. I will no longer follow what I think, what I feel, what I want, but will listen to and obey the voice of the Lord who resides and rules in my heart.When we only preach "Jesus came to save you from your sins and from Hell," we rob God of the intimacy with His children for which Christ died. May we adopt the same goal and message that Jesus had and preached.Jeff
PreachParsly wrote:How do we preach to sinners?Ravenhill once said that the main hinderence to revival is evangelism. Why? Do we preach differently to sinners, than to saints? What is the thrust of our message to sinners? So many focus on Law. Some focus on Grace. Some on the resurection. Is there anything that needs to preface the preaching of the Gospel? I think that Ravenhill is referring more to what is dished up as evangelism than evangelism as such. Often times he would refer to our habit emphasising God's love rather than alerting sinners to the fact that God is angry with them.For myself, it's more a matter of embracing the philosophy of evangelism, than applying a technique. Don't get me wrong, if techniques of biblical evangelism (as taught by the likes of Ray Comfort, or Jack Chick) work for you, great. Better something than nothing, as long as it emphasises the core issue. However a firm understanding of the core issue will produce a good technique. In the Way of the Master series, Comfort admits that the WDJD technique was developed as a result of Kirk Cameron's insistence that a technique would help more people to evangelise, himself preferring the spontaneous approach.What has this got to do with the topic discussed? Alot. Robert Wurtz has been releasing a comiplation of data entitle "The Betrayal Of The Ages", a documentary on the de-emphasis of the 'New Birth' which I would urge all to follow. In it he describes the issues of evangelism and the history of the alteration of evangelism toward the heretical "modern gospel" that is often presented today.We tend to think in terms of "Saved or Unsaved", "Sinners or Saints", etc... and have trouble describing false converts and their conversions. He hop back and forth by refering to false converts as "christians" and "saved". We say things like "I think that those ten people who got saved last night were false converts." There is often confusion over the issue, once someone beings to accept the possibilty of a false conversion.A discussion with a friend of mine, about the flippant use of "sinner's prayers", led to him saying:"But isn't it better that someone gets saved and then later gets a handle on it all a repent?"I replied by saying, "I guess, but when was he actually saved?"David wilkerson put it well by saying that our job is to call for:Repentance from sinFaith in ChristReceiving the SpiritSeparation from the worldI personally preach the same thing to both "sinners" and "saints". Consider this, if the hearer is genuinely converted, they would rejoice over the fact that they are hearing a faithful delivery of the gospel, and are personally receiving further exhortation to separated from the world (which we all need regularly). If the hearer is either falsely converted or totally heathen (really, there is no difference) then they'll either react or respond to the message. Either way someone is brought one step closer to being dislodged from this world.I guess the main thing is that a call to awaken is the main thing. Preaching should be precisely suited to the hearer. As Finney stated, one way to ensure that the hearer is not converted is to preach on sin, without mentioning the sins of the hearers. Whether "saint" or "sinner" we all have sin, and we all need a little nudge to disloge ourselves from it.*Edit* The only real difference is that "sinners" need to be educated on what would seem obviously wicked to the "saint", where the "sint" tends to need to hear about self righteous issues (ie, things that appear good, but really aren't).*Edit*
I would suggest that the reason there is so little "preaching of Christ' is because there is so little knowlege of Christ.The problem is most preacher's (and as a result, most Christian's) knowlege of Christ consist in the one fact that Christ came to die on the cross for our sins and was raised from the dead as a testimony to the sufficincy of his death to save. This is about as far as it goes with maybe the addition that Christ is ascended and interceeds for us as our High Priest.And because this is the extent of it, once you have gotten people "saved" by this message, there is really not much more to do with them other than encourage them to speak the same message to others to get them saved from hell and then begin to try to apply "godly principles" to teach them how to live a "godly" life to be a "good witness" and to get them involved in church activities and "service" (ushering and keeping the kids and such).I would suggest that this is as far as it goes in most churches in the United States. But who knows Christ as their indwelling Life? Who knows the "power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings being conformed to His death? Who knows Christ in all of His aspects as the Bread of Heaven, the True drink, The True Vine, the reality of the sin offerings, the meal offerings, the heave offerings, etc. Who knows Christ as the indwelling fountian of Eternal Life springing up from within them? Who knows Christ as their patience, their holiness, their wisdom, their endurance, their satisfaction? Who knows Christ as the "lover of their soul", their Spouse, etc.Who knows Christ as the indwelling transforming Spirit to transform them into the same image from glory to glory ("now the Lord is the Spirit...")Who knows Christ as their all sufficiency for all things in all situations at all times?Who can say, 'for me to live is Christ and to die is gain?Who can say that they live their life daily in the spirit as a branch abiding in the Vine to express the Life of the Vine to bear fruit?How many siminaries teach and train "pastors" to rise up daily, contact the Lord in their spirit, feed on Christ as their food and sustinance, pray through the scriptures and enjoy Christ as their rich supply?How many siminaries teach and train "pastors' to die to themselves, take their cross daily forsaking their soul life and living by and being constituted with the resurrection Life of the Living resurrected Son of God who indwells them?Preachers must preach other things because they have nothing else to preach. They preach knowlege and "correct doctrines' and the law and such. They preach what the Bible has to say about this or that issue. But they do not preach Christ because they do not know Christ (beyond the basic doctrine of salvation from the penalty of sin). One cannot preach above his experience of Christ and one cannot experience Christ above the knowlege and revelation he has of Christ by the Spirit.A. W. Tozer said, "We know only so much of CHrist as the Spirit reveals and we have only so much of Christ as the Spirit imparts". And we can only impart to others so much of Christ that we ourselves have, enjoy, and are constituted with. We cannot give out gold that we don't have and we cannot lead another beyond our own level of Christian experience.I submit that this statement is either true or false. And if it is true (and it is), then anything else is a waste of time. It is really, genuinly, and absolutely a wast of time and literally a person would be just as well off fishing than pursuing religious knowlege, doctrines, and techniques for "effective preaching" because what does not originate with the Spirit and what does not communicate the Living Christ is dead. Until we come to the place where we see that this is a fact, and Call on the Lord crying, Lord, if this be so, then bring me into the reality of Christ. No matter what it takes, no matter what practices or concepts I must release or forsake, I care for nothing but Christ, and the knowlege of Christ and the experience of Christ that I might be a minister of Christ for the sake of building up the body of Christ with Christ."And only when we come to terms with this absolute reality will we see that the one thing we must do above everything else is to enter into intimate fellowship with Christ daily, in His Word, contacting Him through prayer and recieving the Spirit's revelatin of Christ through His word. And only when we see God's eternal purpose for His redeemed is not to take them to heaven to worship him as an angel, but to make them sons of God constituted with His Life and nature by despensing Himself into them as the Tree of Life will we be able to advance becasue we understand what God is doing with us and within us.And only when we have the revelation that God has united Himself with us in Christ through the Spirit and intends to constitute us with Himself as our Life to make us His expression, can we begin even to ask the Lord for it. If we don't see our need we will not ask and if we do not ask, we will not recieve and not enter into the reality of Christ as our indwelling Life.Graftedbranch
eee gads man! whats that in your hand grafted branch? is that a sword, no dont, not me dont stick me! *pierced*(to the heart)