Tongues

not sure how to use site.I was brought up nominal christian.Joined R/C church on marriage.Questioned beliefs.Now attending bible based church.A little confused about Tongues.Some say not for these times others use frequently.ie(Jackie Pullinger).Recently told these are not of God.?? Really find all the info confusing.Anyone else solved this dilema.Thanks

Pancres,Seems to me people have a greater problem with the tongue they are familar with let alone some other "unknown" tongue...:-(ginnyrose

hello alli am a believer that speaks in tongues, this was something that I asked God for and he gave it to me. through the many different churches that i have been in an heard different people talk in tongues. there are some tongues that i have heard that the lord warned me about and brought my attention 2 but i do not know why except that their tongue was bable and there heart was only interested in people looking at them and their gift. When God has really revealed his will to us in pray meetings everyones tongue seemed to be definitly another language. when i pray in tongues i find God gives me anwsers to different prayers that i have prayed but sometimes if my heart is not in it my words feel like repetitive bable and no anwsers are given. I feel it's about our heart and our walk with jesus. i thank God that he gave me tongues because i love to sing to the lord in them when no one is around with out anyone around. plus my life is heavely placed around prayer and i needed the extra strength. the holy spirit was in my heart before i spoke in tongues!

Hello , yall. I'm new to this site but not to the body. I have studied this isssue of tongues for a long while now. I'm sure many of us have. I am convinced what the bible teaches about tongues on how there were two different manifestations. The the one in acts and the one in the corinthian church were different. This is one of the many things that i had found out about it. Here's my point, the bible seems to confirm the existance of tongues but there is something very wrong in the body today! If tongues are real today then why is everybody in most charasmatic churches speaking with them? The bible says that not all speak with tongues.(1 Cor. 12:30) Most of the church also teaches that all you have to do is recieve the gift. They simply go into another room or on the altar and recieve the gift. By praying over them, they manifest this gift. Doesn't bible say that the spirit gives gifts as he wills?(1 cor. 12:11)I usto go to theses churches, and it seems to me that we have the holy spirit programed for our pleasure. Also, my last question is this. Why are the catholics now speaking in tongues. Today they are using this and other charasmatic gifts to bring forth memebers. The average catholic church a couple of years ago was about fifty members. After implementation of the gifts, membership sored to 200 and growing. Many would say there are false tongues. I could understand that arguement since satan is able to counterfiet alot of things. But just like money, there are ways to spot which one is authentic and which one is not. With the bible we are able to spot false teachings, false prophecies, false christians, but we are left in the dark about false tongues? The bible talks about lying wonders and miracles but the question still stands, How do you tell the difference? Please help me with this. God Bless you.

Welcome to SI. I am a firm believer in tongues and the baptism in the Holy Spirit w/ the evidence of tongues. It can be very disturbing to those who are unfamiliar with the gifts and baptism. As I would tell anyone who has questions regarding doctrine and theology.... STUDY and PRAY. We here are human and not one of us here have all the doctrines correct. If in doubt Study the word...do not just read. Seriously study and do while praying for Gods guidance. He WILL lead you to all truth.Seems to me people have a greater problem with the tongue they are familar with let alone some other "unknown" tongue... That is a good statement and hope to remember and use it in the future.

I was wondering if you could tell me the difference between the tongues you speak and the the ones the catholics are speaking? Not sarcastic, just want to know the truth. like i have said before, i know that the bible says about the subject. But whats happening in the world is just not matching up.

I think we can all agree.the day of Pencost they were baptized with the Holy Ghost!in reading (Act2:6.this is the (tongue) threw out the NT the word in greek word-(Glossa)=tongue,and the greek word for Talking=lalia which = the word GLOSSALAIA= (speaking dialects of foreign languages) in human text!!!. Now the term Glossalaia which now has been adopted in a new movement which started by Episcople priest in California in 1960. has no human text or dialects.

Tongues 1100..of men444 ,we know that paul was educated in more than one language from his youth, and study of the law.being a Jew also a roman.....and 2532..,(of angels 32)..as a Messenger of Truth a pastor!...Now we Know that PAUL speaks the truth by the Holy Ghost,A Messenger of the Good NEWs. The day of Pencost ( Acts 2:4-6 The Holy Ghost spoke and people from (all over the Land with different languages,Heard these men which speak (Galilaeans) ,every man heard them speak in his own Dialects of Language!

I do not disagree with scripture on baptism of the holy ghost but if anyone can try to help me know how can you tell the difference. There seems to be tongue speakers but no discernment.

This Tongue by the Holy Ghost,in the New Teatatment, Is A gift to spread the Good News!!,in Foreign Languages to foreign people.. Now I believe your ?? should state is their a language that you could speak like, the angles,or speak as them.in some form of un-human Language.only to edify ones self .but not understanding what is being said,to edify one's self??????

There is both scripture to support tongues as a foreign language and tongues which has to be interpreted. I'm not talking about the foreign language one. I've been sudying this subject as i have said before. And I just want peoples biblical views and defense for this gift. So far what the bible says on the subject and what is happening today is completely contradictory to each other. If this gift is a biblical manifestation of the Holy spirit why are Catholics speaking in it? Why are many churches who exersice this gift uniting with the catholic church? And how are we to tell the difference between true and false tongues if there is indeed such a thing? They sound the same everywhere.

Their is only (one Tongue!)That of the Holy Ghost spoke on the day of pentcost! ==that of a foreign language spoken,so that other's would Hear the Good News! in his or her own (dialect). The Birth of the Church Of Christ.... Now this new Movement of some "new tongue of angles"! started in 1960,by an episcopal priest in Ca.which has moved thur the Pentecostal,and many other churches.

(Tongue--oops--in cheek!) Ok sorry.I have had all kinds of "teachings" as well, on the subject, and I watned to first say that Krispy, u r the FIRST person I've ever known of that came through the Word of Faith movement and actually ended up SAVED!! NOT trying to be smart, just rejoicing!! Seriously. But as for the tongues, I am grateful for the first poster, that they are searching for the answers. I too am one who must find the TRUTH as far as I can tell, b/c there is SO much c--p being taught! I have been in A of G churches, among other mainstream denominations, and I have to say that if the ppl who "seem" to and/or "claim" to speak in tongues, actually DID, we would not have nearly the mess in the church that we have today.I read a book a few years ago by a little old Baptist lady, and it was the first time I'd ever seen it written down, what I had felt for so long; that it's is like a club, that ppl have to join the "tongues club", so they can be part of the "in" crowd, and cool, etc. She said that many of those who think they are speaking in tongues only do so when other ppl are around, so they can show that THEY ARE SO HOLY, and wear tongues like a badge. Please don't get me wrong: I KNOW that it's real, and I know that God loves to give us the gifts, today. But doesn't it make sense, that ppl would try to find an easier softer way, than getting it from GOD---which might not come when WE want it, or HOW we want it, etc.... I was shocked when someone tried to tell my husband and I that we had to "help out" the Holy Ghost... Whatever happened to "as the Spirit gave utterance"?? I'm not 100% certain that it is THE sign of having been baptised in the Spirit, but ya know what? I really don't care. All I know, is that the Lord God searches our hearts, and I want to recieve anything that He wants to give me. I've heard enough times of ppl's accounts of actually GETTING the tongues, and it seems to be like a well-spring sort of thing, not at all like the way I've seen it in chruches--line up get prayed for and start talking, babbling or something! I swear, I feel pressured to DO SOMETHING when I've had ppl pray for me about this. To where I will not go forward for prayer, for this. Maybe sometime I will have the PAstor pray for me when it's not in front of everyone, but maybe I"ll just seek the LORD alone. He's given the REAL DEAL when ppl are alone in their prayer closets, right? Life is really too short to settle for a fraud, IMHO.Blessingsand great thread! :o)

Lets say my native tongue is french. and lets say i was there at the day of pentcost.I would hear That Good new's being preached in my native tongue to my ear, now in 1co13:1 Paul uses term "of angeles"-which means ( as a pastor or messenger)

“I remember a man getting up and saying, "You know, brothers and sisters, I was here three weeks and then the Lord baptized me with the Holy Ghost and I began to speak with other tongues." I said, "Let us hear it. That's what I'm here for." But he would not talk in tongues. I was doing what others are doing today, confusing the 12th of I Corinthians with the 2nd of Acts. These two chapters deal with different things, one with the gifts of the Spirit, and the other with the Baptism of the Spirit with the accompanying sign. I did not understand this and so I said to the man, "Let's hear you speak in tongues." But he could not. He had not received the "gift" of tongues, but the Baptism.”-Smith Wigglesworth, The Bible Evidence of the Baptism of the Spirit

My questions are still not answered. Many seem to be believers in tongues yet we cannot figure why the catholics are speaking in them. If Satan would counterfiet those things that are a threat then why can't we tell the difference between true and false tongues? By the way, There were two different manifestations of tongues according to the bible. Acts chpter 2 says they heard each one speak in his own language and Corinthians says there was need of interpretation. but if the tongues being spoken today is indeed the same manifestation like the corinthian church, then why are the catholics speaking in them?

the need for interpretion ,because there was no-body there to hear it in their native ear.

Green, are you saying that you believe that the current manifestations are not what they seem to be?

Hello meagain ,1 co13:1 the word( of angel)g32 in the strong's ( to bring tidings),or (a Messenger),or (especially an angel) or;(by implication)or( a Pastor) (angel),messenger.

YES!

OK green thank you for your imput. If there is anyone else out there that explain to me how we could discern between false tongues and true tongues it would be of some help. Main question is: Why are the catholics speaking in tongues?

“Now Paul here says, ‘I may speak with the tongues of men…’ He doesn’t say he doesn’t say he ‘does,’ he says, ‘What if I did?’ Now again, he has been arguing here in this 12th chapter about the gifts of the Spirit. Oh, what controversy they cause. The least gift causes the most trouble. The least gift is tongues; it causes more heartache and havoc than any other gift in all the whole list. Now people say you must speak in tongues to have the baptism of the Spirit. You can’t prove that Scripturally, I don’t care who you are. At least you won’t convince me, because I’ve already convinced myself. But you won’t convince me of that-why not? Because the Scripture clearly says, ‘He gave to one’ what? ‘He gave to one the spirit of wisdom, to another the word of knowledge, to another faith, to another gifts of healing, to another the workings of miracles, to another the discerning of spirits, to another divers gifts of tongues, to another…’ “Now, the Holy Spirit isn’t foolish, surely you wouldn’t say that. If everybody had to have the gift of tongues, the Holy Spirit would certainly say He gave to everybody the gift of tongues, He does not say that, He says He gave ‘to another.’ Now at the end of the chapter when He summarizes it, He says, ‘Well, do all speak in tongues? Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?’ The answer is negative every time. They do not.” “Now having said that, that does not dismiss a valid experience of tongues. There is a valid experience. There is a valid experience of interpretation; I believe they’re very rare. I’m not gonna’ stay here. Somebody once said, ‘You know, you’ve gotta’ watch what you do preaching, you can stir up more rattlesnakes than you can kill.’ Well, I don’t want to do that; I’ll leave it to the doctor here to answer all the questions. I will stir the rattlesnakes and leave him to kill them.”“But you see there are at least three kinds of tongues. There are psychic tongues; I use to go to a home where there were two lovely daughters. Well, the mother thought so, I didn’t for sure. But, she said she had two lovely daughters, and, you know those girls communicated from being about ten years of age, they had a language that could not be, in any way, defined. If they wanted a thing, they’d say something, ‘Yap yap, budda budda, shooba-doowah,’ like that, and the girl would say, ‘Yap yap, alright.’ And she would go upstairs and bring a certain book. The other girl would say something to her and she’d go get something else. And their mother said, ‘I have never understood this. They did not learn it, but they can communicate it, we can’t define it, but they speak another language.’”“I’ve heard missionaries say that men that were drunk dancing ‘round a native fire have spoken flawless English, almost Oxford English. So there is a psychic tongue. There is a demonic tongue. Spiritus can speak in tongues. Now people say today, ‘Do you know the greatest need there is in the church,’ well, I’ll tell you what I think the greatest need, it is not the gift of discernment, because I have a sister-in-law who discerns many things and she’s quite unsaved. People say, ‘I’ve got the gift of discernment.’ So does an ungodly man. What you need, what we need is the gift of discerning of spirits; to see whether they’re true spirits or false spirits. Because Satan is a great mimic, he’s a great imitator. So, you don’t look too happy I better hurry on here.”-Leonard Ravenhill, from sermon: 1 Corinthians 13

Sorry. Double post.

Annie,I have seen many of the stances. I was baptized by the Holy Ghost, and did not speak in tongues. I even went to the Lord in prayer, asking for tongues if it was His will. His answer: 'covet earnestly the best gifts.'Many who speak in tongues feel beat up because they do speak in tongues. I have felt beat up because I did not. Like my experience wasn't genuine.This aside, anyone who is a child of God is my brother or sister in Christ. I hope we can all continue to discuss and debate in a spirit of unity.1 Cor 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."

HI I never got angry at any one here,and I'm not coming against any pentelcostals.I will say I'm a poor typest,and speller.I'm a Christain Eastern Orthodox,I'm from the states,and yes I'm a sinner,just like every one here.who is in need of forgiveness everyday,By the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.when i found this site,It made me think,why do some say this,or better.why do some do it this way.as reading post.there are so many branches to the vine.and I still don't know what method of faith or church people go to on this Forum. i will say I'm a sinner in needing Christ.

I read through all the postings on this topic, and I thought the discussion has been edifying and good, especially since it is one that tends to be highly controversial. There is a recent thread under the "Scriptures and Doctrine" forum called "1 Corinthians 14:13" that addresses alot of what has been spoken of in here, with the exception of the speaking in tongues amongst Roman Catholics. As far as that one, I do know that in the 1960's there began a charismatic movement among Roman Catholics that replicated alot of what was happening in Pentecostal circles. Other than that, I don't know much about it. In the 1 Corinthians 14:13 thread, it has been mentioned in detail how the gift of tongues of 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 differs from the tongues that were manifested in Acts 2, 10 and 19, so I won't belabor that. I find a lot of well-meaning brothers and sisters who get a bit confused when they try to mix and match things that are indeed similar but are not identical in purpose in function. If you don't see clearly how they differ, that thread may be of some help for you.I have grown up spiritually in an Assembly of God (A/G) type of church, so naturally I am going to have a bias after a "Pentecostal" nature. One big disagreement with folks is what is the sign of the "baptism in the Holy Spirit." From 1906 onward (at Azusa Street revival, and actually a little earlier--around 1900), the manifestation of tongues has been stated as "the initial, physical evidence" of that baptism. Why would people make that kind of assertion? Well, when you read through the Book of Acts, there are five accounts of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. In three of them (Acts 2, 10 and 19), tongues were in evidence. In Acts 8, there was something physical, for Simon the sorcerer saw it and wanted to pay money to get the gift of laying hands on others to receive that same gift of the Holy Spirit. In Peter's explanation in Acts 8, he said that he had no part in that matter, which is from the Greek logos, which can be translated as speach or utterance. We can INFER that this manifestation was also tongues, since that is the physical manifestation that went along with the other 3. I mean, we could get into speculation of other things outside of Bible revelation, like maybe they did cartwheels or jumping jacks or whatever. But perhaps you can see the line of reasoning. With Paul's baptism in the Spirit in Acts chapter 9, no reference is made to tongues. We do see in 1 Corinthians 14 where Paul said he was glad that he spoke in tongues more than all the Corinthians. We could INFER that Paul received tongues when he was baptized in the Spirit. BUT Acts 9 neither really proves nor disproves tongues as a manifestation in Paul's case. We know by comparing Gospel accounts of the exact same incident that some details are left out of one but included in another. Even in the three accounts of Paul's conversion in Acts, there are some details Luke chose to record in one version of the story that he did not in another. Anyway, the point is, I don't think one could PROVE Paul spoke in tongues at his baptism, but neither can one DISPROVE it, just because Luke did not mention it. If Paul did speak in tongues, Luke certainly did not think it was noteworthy enough of mentioning it in light of the other spectacular things that happened, like his blind eyes being opened. So really in my opinion, if one wants to see what the Bible says about the EXPERIENCE of the baptism in the Holy Spirit, the safest ground to stand upon would be those four accounts (Acts 2, 8, 10 and 19). 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 are not accounts of the experience but about specific application of the use of these gifts in a believers' meeting.The other side of the coin is those who will point out mighty men of God who did not speak in tongues. Were men like John Wesley, Charles Finney, D.L. Moody and other great soul winners who did not speak in tongues NOT baptized in the Holy Spirit? And even in more recent times, great revivals in Wales and those in the Hebredes under Duncan Campbell were ones of the obvious demonstration of God's power in reviving the church and awakening lost sinners. They did not speak with tongues, but no one can deny God's power was observably and spectularly put on display. As we look at Jesus' parting words, His emphasis alway lay on the POWER to be His WITNESS (Acts 1:8). The Lord's words settle the issue. If one does not have power to live a holy life and be a dynamic witness for the Lord Jesus Christ, it doesn't matter what kind of "tongues" the person professes; he or she didn't receive what Christ promised as the heart and substance of the baptism in the Spirit--power. Jesus also did say in Mark 16 that one of the sign that would follow believers would be speaking in tongues. By watching what happened in the unfolding of God's promises and plans in the Church through the Book of Acts, we see that the tongues Jesus made reference to were always in close connection and association with the baptism in the Holy Spirit. One thing which is interesting about the Day of Pentecost was that the Spirit of God was represented in two symbols--a rushing mighty wind and tongues of fire. The rushing mighty wind, the whirlwind (or tornado or hurricane) is emblematic of God's power to destroy the works of the devil, just like Jesus did when He had the Holy Spirit upon Him (Acts 10:38). I think the real heart of the issue is: do I have that power? When I speak, do my words have that kind of power to effect God's righteousness and power to deliver as a rushing mighty wind? We can look at pictures from huricane Rita's devastation of the Gulf Coast; it was not the same afterwards. Does my ministry have that kind of effect spiritually on the lives of others? Or is it more like a gentle breeze that just rustles the leaves a bit, but when all is said in done, everything remains as powerless, dead and impotent as before? Jesus said in John 7:37-39 that out our innermost being will flow RIVERS (not trickles) of living water. An honest person should ask, "Do I have rivers?" And if not, be thirsty, come to Jesus for a drink, and ask the Father in faith for the Spirit as He taught us to do (Luke 11:13).The second symbol on the day of Pentecost was the tongues of fire. Fire everywhere in Scripture is a symbol of purity and holiness. It is hypocrisy to think that I can speak in tongues in the worship meeting but yell at my wife or kids at home in my mother tongue. The fire of God should change our tongues from being set on fire for hell (as James says) to being set on for heaven! If one doesn't have a speech life that is pure and holy--free from whisperings, backbitings, gossip, slander and such like--then I would question what kind of "tongues" that person really has.This is my opinion, but I think that the baptism in the Spirit has those two components--power and tongues (with purity especially in view). The church at its onset had these two very much united. On the day on Pentecost "all" spoke in tongues. At Cornelius' house, everybody there spoke in tongues. At Ephesus, all 12 men spoke in tongues. At Samaria, the magician observed that "anyone" who had their hands laid on them received the Holy Spirit with some observable sign. If Paul were to write an epistle today, he would have had to address the confusion about tongues or no tongues at the baptism in the Spirit, is it for today, etc. But there wasn't any such confusion then, just the stuff in the worship meeting some of the Corinthians had about the use of the gift of the Spirit there. Since the time of Luther and the Reformers, gradual and periodical strides have been made in revelation with the Church universal. It started with justification by faith with Luther. Wesley brought it further with daily, practical holiness of life. The 1800's with a reawakening of Christendom of their worldwide responsibility for missions. In 1906 with Azusa Street, I believe there was another advance. And yes, with each advance of revelation, there is controversy and abuses. But isn't the fundamental question this: when the whole church is expressing tongues in association with the baptism in the Holy Spirit, does that seem MORE LIKE the Book of Acts or LESS LIKE it? That's a question you need to ask for yourself as you seek the heart and mind of God from His Word. Everything that the Holy Spirit does glorifies Jesus. The other thread I made reference to speaks toward that aspect of a prayer language that edifies the believer and provides an outlet for his or her spirit to pray, enhancing communion and intimacy with the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. May God richly bless you as you seek His face and to know His Word, topics like these and others.

Thank you all for your imputs. this is for j777. Did you know that all the manifestations of tongues in acts were like that of pentecost. There was no need for translation. (Acts 10:47)also It was fufill the apostles great commission. (Acts 1:8) Every time somone spke in tongues, they fufilled each of those requirements. Now the one in corith was different becuz it required interpretation. Though there is more I can teach on the subject thats all I want to correct.(Everyone) Now From what i read from everyone it seems that we all can agree that it doesn't matter what gift you have, if we have not Lolve we are nothing. Not only that, the people that say lord, lord in matthews gosple talk about doing many wonders and God still says Depart from me i never knew you. In conclusion, I have seen that tongues can be relavent for the present but the tongues being spoken today is not that from corinth. Becasue is the catholics are speaking in them and if there is no way we can discern between the two then the language call WE call tongues is obsolete. There are signs and lying wonders and that may be one of them. I find it hard to believe that the millions of professing christians "who speak in tongues" are actually saved. I've met some rotten people who have supposedly been baptised by the spirit w/ the "evidence". Now there are people, that i know, who speak in tongues and i know by thier fruit they are saved. And both the christian and the false christian sound the same when they speak it. And since now Catholics are speaking in them just to get a crowd and to "glorify the Mass and Mary" I have a big problem with it. I'm not making this up. You can go to Google and type in Charasmatic Catholics or Catholics speaking in tongues and you'll find the history behind it all. Also people were speaking in this so called tongues way before asuza street. If anything, Tongues gives people a false sense of security that they are saved when they are not. I know some people that when they speak in tongues they get some kind answer to prayer or a deeper revelation on scripture. I get the same thing when i speak in a regular languageor when i speak not at all. Its all about meditation! When our mind is focused on God and all attention is on him, only then do we get the glory to surround us. Only then do we get revelation to scripture, or answer to prayer, etc. This is not an insult nor am i speaking in in harsh tone but i feel that the body of christ has been greatly decieved and not only that but the unbelievers are decieved as well. I believe tongues is real, but not the tongues we see today. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit nor a godd tree bear bad fruit. And it seems as if this sign of tongues grows on both trees. If you really want to get a spiritual revelation of the truth, Go to: http://dunamai.com/Azusa/azusa-index.htm and read through the history and what was going on the services. It was report that ver few preaching had gone on. People were shouting "bring forth the tongues". Even the leader deied it's authenticity. If you want to find the truth about anything, go to the history on the beginning.(Rom 11:16) For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches. KJV. This is why the bible history is so important. And this is why we need to search for history as well as the bible. Because history proves itself.

warriorofgod wrote:Did you know that all the manifestations of tongues in acts were like that of pentecost. There was no need for translation. (Acts 10:47)also It was fufill the apostles great commission. (Acts 1:8) Every time somone spke in tongues, they fufilled each of those requirements. Now the one in corith was different becuz it required interpretation. Hi warriorofgod: yes, I agree with you that the tongues spoken of throughout Acts are one and the same, and there is a distinction being made in 1 Corinthians. I would make this comment about tongues being a fulfillment of the Great Commission (meaning the preaching of the gospel to every creature) though. On the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2, the sign of the other tongues attracted people's attention, but it was Peter's straightforward preaching of the gospel message with which conviction came upon the multitude and 3,000 were saved. There is no record of any conversions immediately following the hearing of tongues. Salvation experiences recorded in the Book of Acts always followed the preaching of the gospel not tongues. Just a little something more for you to chew on :-)

Thanx

I'm glad for the edification. But your exegeting the text still does not anser my question. I know what bible says about the gift of tongues. But the question still stands. if this is indeed a gift of God than why are the catholics speaking in them. If the proof of baptism is tongues, then why are the catholics exersicing them in their service. What the bible says and what is happening today is not the same! Please read my previous thread. I feel as though you havent taken the time to read it thouroghly.

hi, another subject where people who know nothing about the subject are self proclaimed teachers on the subject.elliminating all catholics from the possibility of salvation is idioticly proud and prejudice because they are all whosoevers.youth is waisted on the young. jimp

i understand your reply now. I just dont understand when you say that there are catholics that are saved. If they were truly saved then just by reading their bible they can tell that they don't belong there. The bible says the spirit will lead you into all truth. Unless they are there to pull people out of the fire, i just don't see it your way. But thanks for sharing the clarification for me. And this is to Jimp:hi, another subject where people who know nothing about the subject are self proclaimed teachers on the subject.elliminating all catholics from the possibility of salvation is idioticly proud and prejudice because they are all whosoevers.youth is waisted on the young. jimpDid you you know that is a proud and prejudicial statement? It's like saying I'm judgemental when it takes judgement to make that statement. Please dont get me wrong. I love catholics, Muslims, Buddhists,Mormons but if they dont steer away from their superstitious teachings, It's idolatry.

This in the same subject,What about dream's and vision?How can you tell,if you think you had one. a subject not really talked about

Well I had this back in 1990,before I really started to read the bible,four year after being baptized,in the church.This dream is still with me.I had a lot of stuff that really changed my life,happen to me .that I can't explain nor try to, but This dream that I had, which checked out with the word, meant to be private?,but being on this subject of tongues,and re=reading act,coming across dreams,i never really talked about it,and may not be the right place too bring this up.

bro Warrioryou wroteUnless they are there to pull people out of the fire, i just don't see it your way. this is a good point.i think also some may be there to be an example for the others who're still unsaved so that they won't have an excuse come judgement day. it's easy to say that "well they're saved and they should walk way from that church" but we should remember that what the Lord is woking out through one saint may not be immediately plain to us. in my experience, the church i'm at right now is one in which the vast majority are not Spirit-filled. my initial response to this was "well Lord i need to be in a place where there are Spirit-filled believers so i don't want to come here any more." the Lord replied by saying that if these people didn't know what it was to be Spirit filled, then how would they know unless such a one was among them? now i must say though that being this example doesn't so much involve me talking about being Spirit-filled as it is behaving myself as such. our conduct speaks louder than what we may say.

I understand, I came out of one just recently. But one question that i have is this. Is the pastor preaching according to scripture or are just the people in your church just not gettin it?

hi warrior, i am sorry for my abrupt retort but i have seen thousands of catholic people get saved around the world in the last 42 years. real revivals in argentina,where paul ravenhill ministered for years, mexico, columbia,cuba and even the catholic aharismatic revival of the 60s and 70s;which filled up evangelical churches all over the world.... brother will; after writing his masters thesis on how tongues was not for today and at the nobts it ain't; went to pray for his mother who was on her deathbed. he asked God to heal her as he held her hand and he began speaking in tongues. she was healed and he was shocked. while weeping over my sins 42 years ago i told God how that i was a good sinner but didn't think i would be a very good christian and i began speaking in tongues(never even heard about this gift or evidence or asa len ravenhill used to tell me"if you want the Holy Spirit you are going to accept everything that comes with Him you figure it out... i'm resting in the finished work of Jesus Christ.jimp

Are thay still catholic?

hi, the question is not are they catholic, but are they saved. there are only the lost and the saved. Jesus said that He cameNOT to condemn the world but through Him the world might be saved.jimp

The relationship between catholic and charismatic has popped up in this tongues discussion a few times. Indeed, sometimes it's good to ask people who actually ARE Catholic and speak in tongues. That is what I did, and this is the answer I received (had posted on another tongues thread that disappeared)Here it is, right from the "horse's mouth": It's not a question of Catholics speaking in tongues....why is anybody speaking in tongues? Speaking in tongues is one of the most common of gifts from the Holy Spirit. It enhances worship - i.e. when one runs out of superlatives and praises during worship it's a joy to be able to let gocompletely and speak or sing in tongues. This should not be confused with the other gift of tongues which is more serious and prophetic. It could be an existing or a defunct language - but, at all times, needs to be interpreted on the spot by someone with the gift of interpretation. If youare born again and living in the spirit, you receive the gifts. The Holy Spirit makes no denominational distinction! Hope this helps. Diane

Earlier someone mentioned about dreams and visions, so I will respond to that too.Here again is a God-given means of discernment and enlightenment that has gone “off the rails” by countless. But that does not negate it. Earlier you read about the fake $20 bill. It’s like that. If you don’t or can’t “discern”, you will be fooled. Not only that, you will be led astray by those very gifts – either embracing them or refusing to accept them. James tells us why people fall into sin: it’s because of their sinful desires. Countless sinners do not want God, but desire a religious, ecstatic experience. That is a dangerous sinful desire. Satan is eager to comply – by counterfeiting God’s gifts. On the other hand many want to have a well-controlled religious experiences, in which their own intellect rules. That is also a dangerous desire, and Satan can give them counterfeits (good intellectual arguments). God has not given me the gift of tongues, but he does give me dreams and visions. I would like to share an experience of a particular dream, and you can translate it into this tongues issue: One night (?Tues) God gave me a dream in which I was told that I would NOT be attending my church on Sunday. For the next several days I pondered what that could mean. I knew it was a “take”, that is, one really from God (as compared to one not from God). So I did a lot of speculation: Was I going to suddenly be called to another church to fill in as worship leader or pianist. …. By Saturday night I got very irritated at God, telling him he was annoying me with all these revelatory experiences. And I asked him to stop it. … no anwer…. Sunday morning I drove to church, most irritated at God. I scolded him; ‘God, how can I know when it’s from you? How can I trust you? Why are you confusing me?” Before the service I prayed with the pastor in his office, as I often did. Then just at 11am I suddenly got the idea that I should call home and check on my son who was ill. He was indeed in a serious condition (has diabetes) and so I needed to go home immediately. As I was driving home, God spoke to me saying, “See, you can trust me. (ie regarding dreams and visions) Now, those who never have dreams and visions could write several pages here discussing the authenticity of revelatory gifts. But in the end, it is a case of merely trusting God….. and leaving it at that. Seek discernment – not merely in your own natural intellect, but supernatural discernment from God… or else…. guaranteed…. you will be fooled in many ways.It is a case of dying to the flesh – that crucifying process…. Are you willing?I must decrease, he must increase. Diane

I have much to say but i'm afraid I've run out of time here at chicago. Its time to go back to england. Hopefully i get to speak with you guys once again. When i get internet i will be sure to pop back in. Thank you for the info.

Ok I will tell the Dream!it was very short.In 1990,............I was in a high-rise building, un- certain,of what floor I was on,..but the view from the big window I could see other building,..and The day-light was bright.Some people filled the room dressed up,I knew not their faces,but seemed like they were about to celebrate somthing,some where holding gifts.( the floor begain to shake and the buliding moved with the shaking, .....Then with a voice which shock my very being,A voice as deep as thunder" this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased " ..I fell to the floor in fear on my knees and prayed.I woke up .....at that time of the dream,i never read the bible,i came across matt3-18 much later when i started to read the bible,and re played the dream i had in my mind. what does this mean Idon't know? but that I had it.

high-rise building...about to celebrate somthingReminds me of the Tower of Babel. .... mmm .. didn't that have something to do with tongues??? ... God's intervention ... for their own good, not merely punishment.... redemptive in nature. When we can't trust in our own "towers", we have to trust in God. God sure has a way of entering on the scene of human drama - and shaking it all up, and putting his beloved Son where he should be - center stage. GreenQuality, how is he doing that in your life? Diane

To make it simple.He is the Rock which is un shakable,And by Fear and by faith,building upon that Rock which is Christ our Lord. i never looked at that dream in that way, when my mom passed when i was 8,and knew little of my father. my building was shaking,my world as I new it was gone.at eight yr. I remeber raising my fist at God asking why, why did you take my mommy ,just take me instead, and give her back.I have sister who is a yr younger,I moved in with my grandmother and uncle.such sadness in that house.I grew up hateful and showing anger towards the one's that loved me and raised the most.and threw this time.I wonder why, and where, my father is, my own flesh,what would it be like to have one in my time of need,or just to look up to.soon i have moved out on my own (at the time of this dream)i went my way the only way I knew SIN I ended up Poor,but iwas always poor, but this was different,i lost evrthing I was in a good working band,I had the love in my life a car, apartment,freinds everything gone. I was homeless.i moved to building on the 6 floor with big window,it was a shelter for the homeless.I smoked pot and drank like a fish.((Iwas broken, when standing in the shower with clothes on my back trying to clean them.))I had a room no bigger than a bathroom,And out that window on the 6th floor at night i would look at this blue light which shined on the mother mary next to the church about 3 blocks,and a ray of light shot out at me and hit my forhead,at That moment I cryed and asked Jesus to save me,now i have asked in times before this same thing.I felt a boldness in which i never had before.. from that time.I stoped smoking pot,drinking.reading the bible,got a job. then read matt ch5 thur ch 7.And acted upon the saying Of the Lord,He showed me as I walked in his word, how to love those around me,who did not love me first. in way's I never thought I could.((matt ch5 ver 41,and whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile,go with him two.I'm Starting to know my Father thur the love of Christ.and we are still walking,and yes i fall from time to time,but he is there to pick me up.

I was listening to a Zac Poonen commentary on Luke and he was stating how the baptism of the Holy Spirit is mentioned in all 4 Gospels and the Book of Acts, so it is obviously a very real and important thing. He then stated that if Satan wanted to stop a believer from receiving something, it would be the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. So by people who speak in tongues believing they are baptized in the Holy Spirit simply because they speak in tongues, they feel they have received all from God and are seeking nothing. Yet the vast majority of these people who fall in this category do not have the power which God is to accompany the baptism of the Spirit.Where is the power of the Church today? We have so many who claim to be filled with the Spirit, and baptised in the Holy Spirit yet no real apparent power of God with them.Poonen stated that he believes most claims on the Baptism are counterfeits. Many who claim this feel as such because they had an "experience" where they felt emotional, where their pastor told them "your baptized in the Spirit now brother", etc.

A wise person once told me, that your look will get you who you want, but the way you treat them will determine if you will keep them or not.Now, this may or may not sound worldly to you, it does to me – but it is very profound.The person went on to say look, why is it that walking down the street you see a very handsome guy walking with a not too pretty girl or a very pretty girl with a not too handsome guy, it’s the way you treat them that will determine if you will keep them or not. •If this were not so, why would Paul elaborate on it as a teaching towards marriage?•Why would God choose to mention it in the book of Samuel when choosing a King?1 Peter 3:3 - 4 DO not let your adornment be merely outward-arranging the hair, wearing GOLD, or putting on fine apparel - (4) rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God.1 Timothy 2:11-12 Let a women learn in silence with all submission. (12) And I do not permit a, women to teach or to have authority over a man, (Let me say that Again) and I do not permit a Women to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.1 Samuel 16: 7(d) For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man LOOKS at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. (I hope this helps)I remember in ’79 how when speaking to a man I had no mercy honestly I didn’t. I remember when at the age of 19 I lived in a high rise apartment complex, and I had no mercy when speaking and sharing my thoughts and opinions, or my views and intellect. Not to say that I am an intelligent person, I tend to be slow at times, but when need be I do share my ingenuity.The Lord blessed me with a Mom that taught me through her teachings how to speak and how to be reverent not answering back. I learned that there was a time to speak and a time to be quiet. Oh if we could only grasp this little piece right here. God will make room for your gift and he will give you the opportunity to speak when the time is right. It is so easy to speak out words but they are more profound when held inside for a season and through prayer releasing them at the appointed time.I learned through some ancient teachings that God will reveal things to us, God will reveal secrets in prayer but it is not for us to share, until the Lord has released us to do so.I don’t know much about speaking in a tongue or tongues and maybe I don’t know anything at all.Here is a scripture; 1.You shall be hidden from the scourge of the tongue, And you shall not be afraid of destruction when it comes. (Job 5:21)2. Keep your tongue from evil, And your lips from speaking deceit. (Ps 34:13)3. And my tongue shall speak of Your righteousness And of your praise all the day long. (Ps 35:28)4. I SAID, I will guard my ways, Lest I sin with my tongue; (Ps 39:1)5. If I do not remember you, Let my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth- If I do not exalt Jerusalem Above my chief Joy. (PS 137:6)6. The Mouth of the righteous brings forth wisdom, But the perverse tongue will be cut out. (Prov 10:31)7.A wholesome tongue is a tree of life, But perverseness in it breaks the spirit. (Prov 15:4)8. Whoever guards his mouth and tongue, Keeps his soul from troubles. (Prov 21:23)9. By Long forbearance a ruler is persuaded, And a gentle tongue breaks a bone. (Prov 25:15)10. The Lord God has given Me The tongue of the learned, That I should know how to speak A word in season to him who is weary. (Isa 50:4)11. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Phil 2:11) – Hallelujah! I exalt your Holy Name and I lift you up, there is none like you, You reign on high and you are worthy to be praised and adored. If I make my bed in Heaven you are there, if I make my bed on the earth your are there, where can I go from your spirit? 12. If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless (James 1:26)13. Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things. See how great a forest a little fire kindles! (James 3:5)14. And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. (James 3:6 – I don’t mean to do this)15. But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poision (James 3:8)16. My little children let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. (1 John 3:18)17. Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth-to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people. (Rev 14:6) En medio del cielo vi volar otro ángel que tenía el evangelio eterno para predicarlo a los habitantes de la tierra, a toda nación, tribu, lengua y pueblo. Ssanntoo.I learned that in speaking with tongues one is able to edify, to exhort, and to encourage.Here is a scripture;1.You shall hide them in the secret place of Your presence From the plots of man; You shall keep them secretly in a pavilion From the strife of tongues. (Ps 31:20)2. And these signs will follow those who believe: In my name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; They will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover. (Mark 16:17-18)3. Then there appeared to them (divided) tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the multitude, came together and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, LOOK, are not all these who speak Galilieans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? (Acts 2:3-8)y se les aparecieron lenguas repartidas, como de fuego, asentándose sobre cada uno de ellos. Y fueron todos llenos del Espíritu Santo, y comenzaron a hablar en otras lenguas, según el Espíritu les daba que hablasen. Moraban entonces en Jerusalén judíos, varones piadosos, de todas las naciones bajo el cielo. Y hecho este estruendo, se juntó la multitud; y estaban confusos, porque cada uno les oía hablar en su propia lengua. Y estaban atónitos y maravillados, diciendo: Mirad, ¿no son galileos todos estos que hablan? Cómo, pues, les oímos nosotros hablar cada uno en nuestra lengua en la que hemos nacido???4. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. (Acts 19:6)5. THOUGH I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.Yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, then ten thousand (10,000) words in a tongueBrethern, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature. 1. Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 1Corn 14:102. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. 1Corn 14:113. So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church. (speaking to myself) 1Corn 14:12God is still on the throne (thank you). Let us trust In the Lord and not lean on our own understanding but in all of our ways acknowledge HIM and he will direct our paths. God is Sovereign and the dominion is all his. Those that are led by the Spirit of God those are the sons of God. And may I say his daughters’ too. (Yeah his daughters too).Sincerely,EagleLion

sorry j-bird, I believe other wise,Tounges given on the day of pentcost! is what I believe! a tounge given to speak as angels I do not!

He then stated that if Satan wanted to stop a believer from receiving something, it would be the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. So by people who speak in tongues believing they are baptized in the Holy Spirit simply because they speak in tongues, they feel they have received all from God and are seeking nothing. Yet the vast majority of these people who fall in this category do not have the power which God is to accompany the baptism of the Spirit.Where is the power of the Church today? We have so many who claim to be filled with the Spirit, and baptised in the Holy Spirit yet no real apparent power of God with them.We are all by one Spirit baptized into Jesus Christ. I think the problem originates with our understanding first of what it means to be baptized into Jesus Christ. This is a lengthy topic, but until a person is 'in' Christ, all of the finished work of the Cross is not in effect in their life. This baptism into Christ, I believe, is the operation of the Holy Spirit. I do believe in the second blessing of baptism in the Holy Spirit also (as I am Pentecostal); but first things first. Folk can speak in tongues, but that does not impress me because I have seen too much of that type of thing without evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. It comes down to discipling and teaching. Folk have to truly be born again before they can operate in the gifts of the Spirit. I know this will conflict with some folks understandings of the doctrine of salvation; but I just believed a person ought to be born again before we go trying to lead them on into the next step. Some understand the baptism into Christ and the baptism in the Holy Spirit to be one and the same thing. That makes all the gifts available to the Born Again. I am not convinced of this, but wish to emphacize that folk need to be born again before we try to lead them into spiritual things. I know thats common sense and I am not trying to be rude, I have just seen too many attempts to get a person speaking in tongues when it was questionable that they were even regenerated.