Who is glorified by "tongues?"

Why would God want members of the congregation to stand up or speak out and bring attention to themselves during His time of worship? Why would God want to distract someone who might not expect or understand these "tongues" if they are new Christians, or even worse, not yet saved? I just don't understand the need for it. With exception to missionaries in unknown lands confronted by unknown dialects, why would God need his church to speak in a jibber-jabber language?I come from a Baptist church where the congregation (myself included) will verbally acknowledge the Lord's message after various points in the preacher's sermon. We say things like Amen, that's right, uh-huh etc... These are words of understanding and encouragement to the pastor, and everyone (no matter who they are or where they are from) knows what Amen means. So I guess I have to question the heart and true intentions of someone who brings the focus of worship to themselves when ultimately Jesus Christ deserves all of our praise.1 Chronicles 16:25 "For great is the Lord and most worthy of praise; He is to be feared above all gods."

Hi brother,I believe 1 Corinthians 14 was given to us to answer this very question.Blessings,Martin

Where is this made relevant to praise and worship? I understand that during the petecost people of different origins heard their native tongues, but where does it say in the Bible that a new language (one that is not written nor widely understood) should be used to worship and praise him; whether it be in private or not.With all of the differing opinions regarding this subject, why is it not considered a stumbling block to others? I mean not to offend my brothers and sisters, but only to understand them.

So I guess I have to question the heart and true intentions of someone who brings the focus of worship to themselves when ultimately Jesus Christ deserves all of our praise.To really understand this topic we have to rewind the tape back a long ways- clear to the churches of the New Testament. Here is an awesome thought to ponder; "What is it about the way we conduct our 'services' that makes a vital aspect of Christianity such as tongues or any gift of the Spirit no longer important or even unwelcome and begrudged?" God created the Tongues of scripture; not man. Maybe it is because man has created the 'services' that what God created no longer fits? The reality is, when things are functioning rightly near everyone in the service will have 'something' to contribute to that meeting. The one drawing attention to themselves is the guy behind the pulpit (and often that is me as I often preach). So the attention upon ones-self is not the issue if God has elected to use that individual at the moment. Think about it a minute; what part of a 'service' is someone not attracting attention to themselves? Is it when the MC gets up and opens? How about when the praise and worship leader starts leading? What about the offering taker and later the preacher? What about the person praying over the service (prayer leader)? So why in the midst of all this would 'tongues' get singled out? Consider this also, 'Greek' was the 'English' of the New Testament times. Why would tongues be needed any 'more' or 'less' in the first century than now? Were there really all sorts of folk that needed a tongue in Corinth? Was that a missionary effort? That was a well established church. And if Paul was speaking all over the Greek speaking world, why did he thank God that he spake with tongues "more than ye all"? We don't like anything that makes us look foolish do we? Its nothing new. If God had used spiritual sign language we had shunned it also. Why? Because it does not add to our credibility in the eyes of people and forces us to allow God to be God and we don't like that. We want order and structure and smooth sailing. We give lipservice to God being God and for a pretense offer it all as worship. :-?I have known of many people to give a message in tongues in a service and I can say with relative certainty that it goes against anything the flesh would ever want to do. Sing like Frank Sinatra, yes, (I speak as a fool) but give a nasty old message in them there tongues? The beauty of the gift is so far beyond us that the enemy would do anything to make that gift to look foolish or cast it in a bad light. God made it and He gave it and it is a good gift. But like Peter and the sheet, we want to repulse at what God has blessed. I can almost hear those words... that, call NOT thou common or unclean! ;-)I should wish never to scoff at any of the things of God. No matter how I was raised or how bad something about Him or His provision 'strikes me'. It is a cross for most people to give a message in tongues in my circles. And much of the reason it is- is because of the feelings so articulately expressed in the original question. And because of this and other reasons, we are loosing Pentecostalism as it was once known in my parts and we are smack in the AoG and PCG state (Missouri). :-(God Bless,-Robert

Hey Robert, Can you explain why the catholics are speaking in tongues if its a sign from God? You seem to support the subject and are very knowledgable. Why are Catholics now implementing charasmatic gifts in their service such as tongues to increase their memebership?

Hey Robert, Can you explain why the catholics are speaking in tongues if its a sign from God? You seem to support the subject and are very knowledgable. Why are Catholics now implementing charasmatic gifts in their service such as tongues to increase their memebership?I was on a train in 1993 bound for New Orleans and sat by a woman who was a Catholic/Charismatic/New-Ager. I don't know if she spoke with tongues or not, but it was then that I realized that the enemy can take hold of things and drag them them through all sorts of madness. Just because something is trying to be operated by a certain group we may esteem rightly or not as being of God- it can in no way invalidate the gift of tongues.I heard Spurgeon once gave an illustration (someone correct me here if you have all the details) of the Devil using his latest means with which to DAMN the souls of men; he was going to preach the Gospel on the street corner without UNCTION. Tongues are no better without unction than the Gospel itself. There are literally multitudes of groups over the centuries that spoke in some sort of glossolalic speech; but the question is, what was the spirit behind it? Was it the Holy Spirit or another spirit? I had a person walk up to me the other day and offer me a $20 bill. Looked like a $20 bill all right as it was printed with one of the latest color laser printers. I flipped it over and it was a white sheet of paper on the back. They got a good laugh. But what they didn't know is that Federal Law requires color printer manufactures to print into the images it prints a faint yellow seriel number of the machine it was printed on. If you have the right equipment, you can discern the number; and hence its origin. The mass counterfeits of tongues may get past the unsuspecting; but they don't fool the Holy Spirit and when God directs that it be discerned as false, it can be made known. This is why the full operation of the Spirit and several spiritual folk need to be involved in these things as not to run aground with fleshly or demonic counterfeits. As for why they are 'using' this gift? Maybe they have seen the booming growth of Pentecostalism over the last 100 years and thing its the 'tongues'. The reality is- its just a matter of wanting God to be God again and the Holy Spirit to be front and center. In a generation that has made the Bible into a system of proof texts designed to take a person step by step into a 'spiritual' experience (being 'saved') with as little real input from the Holy Spirit as possible, we are desperate for a return to real, bonified, movings of the Holy Spirit. The problem is, folk just refuse to allow Him to assume His place. But why? What are they afraid of?

So once again we are left in the dark because we can discern, with biblical help, all sorts of falseness but we can't even tell the difference between true and false tongues. They all sound the same to me. There are wasy to spot a fake dollar bill but for some reason no one can tell the difference between all the tongues in the world. Since there is no distinction, the whole thing is obsolete. As i have said before, you might think tongues help prayer, revelation, or even healing, but its the meditation on God is what counts. Benny Hinn thinks tongues helps in healing and we all know he's fake.

I am sometimes glorified by tounges if I have no words in english

ICor 14:15. Reguardless its all a matter of faith, what so ever isnot of faith doesn't please God. The experience of tongues didn't lose its importance through the Book of Acts, so I guess you could say it must have been at the very least, some what important to God the Holy Spirit as a manifestation, also people get so bent out of shape over tongues they miss the real beauty of that manifest gift," What is that beauty?" Glad you asked, its evidence of the resurrected Christ in His ascended position at the right hand of the Father :-)

I don't understand how you can defend speaking in tongues by quoting a verse without the surrounding chapter. 1 Corinthians 14 1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. 3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified. 6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church. 13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified 18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. 20Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord 22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!" It is obvious to me that Paul is being clear as crystal about this so-called gift. It is prophecy that Paul recognizes as a a desirable gift. Try to excel in gifts that build up the church, not one that edifies only one unless there are revelations, and what more can you reveal than is already in His Living Word. He would rather speak 5 words in the vernacular than 10,000 in an nintelligible self-fulfilling language. He cannot pray in tongues because it is unfruitful to his mind and vice versa.

this so-called gift...So-called gift? Excuse me, but Paul calls it a gift. What's to defend about speaking in tongues? Did you forget to read:1 Cor 14:5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.You can't use 1 Cor 14 to bash tongues, when Paul does no such thing. In fact, he encourages such. In fact, if you discourage speaking in tongues, you are against what Paul taught:1 Cor 14:39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues

As i have said before, you might think tongues help prayer, revelation, or even healing, but its the meditation on God is what counts. Benny Hinn thinks tongues helps in healing and we all know he's fake.What is meditation on God? Would this be like transcendental meditation? Many false religions meditate. Shall we throw out meditating upon God because of this also just because we don't know what god is being focused on?

He cannot pray in tongues because it is unfruitful to his mind and vice versa.This is because his spirit is praying. And this is the stumbling block upon which you stumble, you have deduced that the mind must understand or the gift is useless.

Lets look againt at I Corinthians 14:1) Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts (v1)2) For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God.3) Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.4) He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church5) I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,6) He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified. 7) Verses 6-12 describes the problem of messages given in the congregational meetings in tongues, without an interpretation. 8) For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says (V 13)It stands to reason here that if he interprets what he says he can communicate the message to the congregation as if it were prophecy.9) For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind;Notice that Paul says here it is good to add prayer with the understanding to praying in tongues. I will 'also' pray with my mind. 10) I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 11) I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. Paul thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than ALL at the Corinthian church, whom those who are against tongues would have us believe are doing it out of carnality. I wonder if any of those scoffers ever consider the finality of that conclusion? They had called Paul the summit of carnality through the implication that tongues are for baby and carnal believers. If he is speaking in tongues more than all at Corinth- what argument is left anywhere- anyhow?12) So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?Notice here, the 'whole' church and 'everyone' coming together speaking in tongues. As a Pentecostal I have never once been in a meeting where everyone and the 'whole' church spoke in tongues. I don't know if there is a church around that the 'whole' church does speak with tongues unless it would be a UPC church.It is obvious to me that Paul is being clear as crystal about this so-called gift. It is prophecy that Paul recognizes as a a desirable gift. Try to excel in gifts that build up the church, not one that edifies only one unless there are revelations, and what more can you reveal than is already in His Living Word.KingJimmie already addressed the use of "so-called" gift....and what more can you reveal than is already in His Living Word.How do you discover truth, through revelation or logical deduction? Because there is a great gulf between the two.

So when it mentions that women should not speak in church does that mean they cannot speak in tongues, or they should not speak in church? Or does it mean that they should not speak in a way that lessens their husbands? or contradicts him? That confuses me.I can grasp some of those points, Robert. I don't agree with them, but I can appreciate where you might feel obligated to worship in such a way. But... what my heart truly doesn't understand is how this gift can be usd to bring others to Christ as opposed to deterring them. Aren't we called by Christ in the Great Commission? We cannot make the lost's sin against God aparent to them in their own language and their own mind with words that very few understand.I am a newborn in Christ (02/04/06), but I have been going to church for the better part of 28 years. I feel as though a majority of Christians today are wrapped up in what God can do for them in their lives for their family. This was one of the things that bothered me because I just couldn't see how the plan for Salvation could be delivered through it. I thank you for your patience with a newly redeemed man of God. I hope that I didn't offend anyone, because those were not my intentions. P.S. Have you told anyone about Christ today?

I am a newborn in Christ (02/04/06), but I have been going to church for the better part of 28 years.I would suggest being in much prayer and "just learning." If you have only been born again for this short of a time, please understand you are not ready to try to debunk a doctrine you disagree with. You may have extensive religious background, but that does not equate with a "history with God." EDIT: I think it may be good to concider that you may have learned something before you were saved, but it couldn't have been revealed to you. Really, anything religious you may be learned before you were saved may or may not be true. This is because, "1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned." We may have agreed with something before we were born again but that would only have been an intellectual agreement. Not a revelation from God, since before then one was not born of God.

So when it mentions that women should not speak in church does that mean they cannot speak in tongues Of course you'd have to bring this up as it pertains to 50% of those in church. Check Philologos' article: Should women remain completely silent in church?Diane

but keep asking questions and picking our brains.Surely do that! I know I have learned much since being on this forum.

I can grasp some of those points, Robert. I don't agree with them, but I can appreciate where you might feel obligated to worship in such a way. I don't think it would be proper to categorize the use of tongues exclusively to 'worship'. I have a different concept of worship that is a little different than most and it deals with the posture of the heart and its willingness to surrender its will to the will of God. Worship is not 'lipservice' it is a way of life. We can worship in Spirit and in truth, but this is much deeper than singing or even making flattering declarations towards God. The word means to "kiss the hand" and it leads to total submission and obedience. This is not to marginalize singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs or making melody to the Lord, etc.; I am simply pointing out that there is a requisite to worship, and that is the posture of the heart towards God. But... what my heart truly doesn't understand is how this gift can be usd to bring others to Christ as opposed to deterring them.Well, this can be said about just about anything that pertains to the things of God if they are not warranted or are somehow out of season. You asked if I told anyone about Christ today, certainly not in tongues ;-). It is beyond the scope of this post to deal with evangelistic methods; but you have to understand that what counts is the dealing of the Holy Spirit. I can demonstrate to a person in the simplest of arithmetic logic that God exists and that through a series of probability equations, that fulfilled prophecy supports the infallibility of scripture- therefore rendering all its sayings as beyond question. However, we are not trying to win people over to a mere mental assent to known facts; that does not save folk. It requires right response to the dealing of the Holy Spirit as He reveals Himself to the person in question (generally through Holy Ghost conviction). We have to 'amen' God or come into agreement with Him as He reveals Himself and His will. I thank you for your patience with a newly redeemed man of God. I hope that I didn't offend anyone, because those were not my intentions. No offense taken. I am glad to share with anyone who desire to know the truth and is willing to consider these things with an open heart.

Hi Krispy,I won't have time today to listen to the sermons, but I did print off one of their links on 'tongues'. It was an article by Elliot Miller of CRI. I don't know if he is still there since they moved to North Carolina, but they take a 'middle of the road' approach. Some of the contents of which I did not agree with, but I respect Elliot Miller a lot.One thought that comes to mind so often on this subject is how the Rabbi's that went to Jamnia in the 1st century took an almost identical line in getting God out of the picture as many have in the Church. I did an article once on this called Talmudic Revisionism and the Struggle for Authority and also, and I think more to the point, It Is NOT In Heaven, which describes how The Rabbi's took the book (Torah) and shut God out. What I mean is, how the whole concept of "when that which is perfect shall come..." (taken to mean when the canon is complete) then that which is in part shall be done away with. This is the same craft as the Rabbi's use as they relegate themselves to the sole authority of all things pertaining to their religion. They would tell you something like, God gave us the Book, so... "what more can He say than to you He has said..." and then assume the authority to interpret the Law and prophets as they saw it with no input from God whatsoever. What we have in Christianity is dangerously colse to this in that we have systematized a means by which we can study the scriptures using logical deductions drawn from proof texts- and before you know it- It is NOT in Heaven for us either. We have the Book- so why do we need the Holy Spirit any more? We can give lipservice to Him leading us into all truth, etc., and go on using our systematic methods of logical deductions as if it were revelation. A cursory read of how the New Testament uses Old Testament passages is enough to demonstrate how the Holy Spirit interprets things a lot differently than we would have in many cases. This is why it is difficult to get many Jews to ever acknowledge Isaiah 53 and other common passages we use. They will point to a larger context and say its impossible for that to be applied in this case. They lean to their own understanding and are shielded from genuine revelation. Again, we may just assume that by faith the Holy Spirit is leading us in areas- but is HE really? Or are we just telling ourselves He is- when we are really coming to our own conclusions based on our own logical reasoning?

Hi Annie,But anyhow ... Robert, a few years back, before I got sicker, I hit this problem you're speaking about and the root of the problem is caused by the incorporation of "Midrashic" interpretation of the Scriptures ... the method picked up while Israel was in Babylon.Wow, sounds like you may have hit a nerve. I would know only bits and pieces about the issue, except that Daniel Gruber was brave enough to spell it all out in his book "Rabbi Akiba's Messiah". I studied Jewish Roots at the Jewish Roots institute, but nothing came near to the synthesis of materials that Gruber put out. I have only discussed the topic in these type settings, so the exposure is limited.

I feel the need to explain myself. At this very moment in my life I know where I am going to be if I were to die today or if He were to rapture the redeemed. I know that I know. I know that I am a sinner. I also know Jesus Christ came to Earth in the form of a man so that He could live a perfect life and then be sacrificed in my stead. I have repented of my sins against God and turned my back on those sins so that I might glorify His name; for he truly is worthy of all of our praise. I am really fired up for God and trying to spread the Gospel. It is amazing to me to see the number of opportunities He has made for me and my brother in Christ over these last 3 weeks. I am finally free from habitual sin in my life, and honestly striving to become more like him.With that being said, why do I feel so uncomfortable when I hear tongues spoken? Why do they startle me and why don't I understand them?Thanks again for each and every comment.

May I make a simple request, this should help you in this matter on "tongues" in the church and in a persons private life. Here's an exercise to do---Read the book of Acts through a couple of times asking The Lord to show you what He will about the subject at hand. Read it through but don't study it, just read it much like you'd read a short story or a secular book. See if that doesn't help ya some.Also note what I posted in the original post about taking somethings by faith, thats a tough thing to do, but its scriptural and sound if its sound doctrinally. Blessings Bro. Daryl

You are probably right. I believe that my gift is the ability to talk to people about Christ. He has given me the opportunity and the words, so for now I should remain focussed on His will in my life. I am really excited about this website, it has given me an avenue for discussion and the sermon downloads are an absolute blessing.The brokeness of both Leonard Ravenhill and Paris Reidhead is convicting, and the direction of Ray Comfort in soul winning is priceless.

The convictions of both Leonard Ravenhill and Paris Reidhead, and the direction of Ray Comfort in soul winning are priceless.I didn't like the way that sounded after I reread it so I changed it the best I could to describe what I felt.He is worthy of our best; at all times and in evertything we do because it glorifies His name.