The Fostering of an Assembly (Shepherding), Part 2

Okay, not to rush things, there's quite a bit of overlap in these portions, they're not all clear pigeonholes, but we come to Hebrews chapter 13 and the three mentions there of your leaders, we only read two of them, the last one is saluting them and my fellow countrymen from Italy saluting them as well. Strange Scotland's not mentioned anywhere, nor Ireland, or is that the barbarians? Front page of the Bible, Duncan Dunsire, Scotland. Along with Wee King James.

He was a Scot. Yes he was, as was Mary. Okay, Hebrews chapter 13, there are a number of things here in this section we want to look at.

We want to look at the lives of these men, we want to look at the legacy they left, the light they shed through the word of God, and their leadership of the assembly. Now those that had the rule over you, considering the end of their life, now there's several different ways and our brethren may have a different take on what this means. We have to remember that in the day that we're reading of here, leadership was a very, very, very dangerous place to be.

Because when persecution arose, they go for the leaders first. Which is why, if you're ever surprised, why Peter has to encourage men to take the role of leadership. You know, men are clamoring to be leaders today.

Peter had to encourage them because being a leader meant you'd be the first to be taken and martyred. So it may well be that the men that we're looking at here, considering the end of their life, the issue of their life, it may well be martyrdom. They were faithful all the way to death and they had left a life that was exemplary and a life that others could follow.

So in keeping with what our brother Summers was mentioning earlier, beyond a man's teaching ability, beyond a man's eloquence, his life is vital in leadership. You can teach what you know, but you can only reproduce what you are. Okay? You can teach what you know, but you can only reproduce what you are.

And if your goal is to see others spiritually growing, then your life is vital as a leader. So in the context of Hebrews, would you take it that these were men that were exemplary in that they had not turned back to Judaism? And bringing that into the context of today, Christendom is often marked by Judaistic practices. So they maintain separation, not only from the world, but from the religious environment around? That could well be what's in view.

Again, for them, it would have been apostasy, probably a mark that they were never really genuinely saved, going back to the sacrifices. But it was still a very, very costly thing. And they would... You know, they had... Chapter 10 suffered the loss of all things.

It wasn't just a matter that they didn't get the best jobs or didn't get the best benefits, but they lost everything as a result of being Christians. And there were some who likely were martyred. And as I said, the leadership would be first to go.

One issue that creates a slight division of opinion back home is the degree or extent to which an overseer must be capable of teaching. And, you know, you've got that here, who have spoken unto you the word of God. My mind in it, for what it is worth, is that apt to teach is found in 1 Timothy 3. But I don't think that that necessarily means that he's a public man.

I think that what it means is that he can sit down in his front room, and if there's an issue about, should I marry an unsaved boy, and it's a young girl in the meeting, well, he could say, well, let's have a look at 2 Corinthians and what it says about the unequal yoke. And I think it's teaching on that low key level, that they know their Bible, and they know what it says. It's not so much, although it does say, spoken unto you the word of God, I'm just reluctant to conclude that what that means is that necessarily an elder must have the gift to teach.

No, actually, whether you are looking in John 20, Acts 20, I'm sorry, John 21, Acts 20, 1 Peter 5, or the negative of it in Ezekiel 34, the first thing, feed the people of God. Now, that does not mean getting up on the platform and preaching. It just means providing food, making sure they're fed.

It could even be the idea of inviting others in to feed the people. It could even be making sure the people are being fed. And that is the primary responsibility, I would take it, since it's first on the list.

And it could be very private, a man who can give scriptural explanation for why we are doing what we are doing or why you should be doing this, rather than necessarily the gift of teaching. Wouldn't 1 Timothy 5 help as well? Verse 17, where it says, Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially they who labor in the word and teaching. And so that implies that there needs to be among the elders those who are capable of teaching publicly, and that's their focus.

And is that in their own assembly? You see, again, a little conviction of mine, which I formed early on, and I've never seen any reason to depart from it. I think we've got things a little bit back to front in the meetings, where if gift is given to somebody, my opinion is that its primary focus and the place that it should primarily be developed and exercised is locally. I believe that's why gift is given to a local body.

Now, I believe it is also true in Ephesians that there are people that are gifted to work in a wider sphere. But I really think that the primary focus of my... I'm over here in Wisconsin, and, well, there it is. I do come over other places every now and again.

But this is not normal for me. My normal ought to be Mayfield. And that is where really, if I've got a teaching ministry, that's primarily where it ought to be exercised.

It's not right that a man preaches all the conferences around the country and never speaks until a meeting. Jack Hunter said many, many years ago, one of the saddest things that he saw in the assemblies in his day was the lack of a teaching elderhood. And he wasn't talking about public speakers.

He was talking about men who could teach and handle themselves locally, look after. Because you've got, in John 21 it was mentioned, you've got tending and feeding the sheep and the lambs. And that's the two things.

Tending, you're going to guard and guide, and you're going to feed them. The Word of God. Considering the issue of their conversation or manner of life, the end of verse 7 there in Hebrews 13.

So, obviously, these men are living their lives before the saints. They're not everywhere at once, right? The issue of their conversation, Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever, be not carried about by divers and strange doctrines. Just putting all that together, there's a steadiness about them.

They're the same today as they were yesterday. I believe, William, that that statement there, Jesus Christ yesterday, today, is not a doctrinal statement about the eternality of Christ. I think the essence of it is his unchanging nature.

He was the same amongst them, whatever the circumstances were. And that is brought in because this is the character of these men's lives. That's the point.

Yeah. You talked about the steady man. It's the Word of God.

It's not his own thoughts or fancy teaching, just good steady Word of God, just the basics. It doesn't change. And that goes right on down there.

Don't be carried about with diverse doctrines. Alan, I know this is my Bible reading, and I'm supposed to get the questions, but let me give you a question. Things are different in Scotland than they are in this country, but what suggestions do you have for us? The majority of ministry that an assembly gets is 15 minutes after the breaking of bread.

And there usually is an assembly Bible reading somewhere during the week. Where does gift develop, and where does this local man, this local elder who is the ability to teach, where does he begin to exercise his gift? I believe locally. I mean, my experience home is different because in Scotland, in all the meetings I've been associated with, there's an afternoon ministry meeting for 45, 50 minutes, as well as the gospel.

We occasionally have a word after the breaking of bread, but as a rule, if there's going to be ministry given, my experience is that you can't really teach something like the priesthood of all believers or the unity of the Church of Christ, the deity in him. You cannot do that in 15 minutes, I don't think. So I think one of the few things, maybe, that Scotland has to teach Ireland, England, and elsewhere is maybe we've just got one thing right, which is that we give opportunity for gift to develop locally.

Because in Mayfield, we have a speaker booked to come to our meeting once every five weeks, and the rest, it's Robert, Ernie, John, who's now not so well as he used to be, Mark, David, and myself, and we take it on board. And I do think, just looking within my own soul, that I have a great debt that I owe to Robert McPheat. He was the man that laid that down.

And that is, he's long gone now, but the legacy he has left, I think, has been a great blessing to me. We have over, I think in our assembly, we have over 60 ministry meetings that local brethren can participate in. And many of the prairie assemblies are the same.

So it must be a United States thing. Yeah, we have problems here. Although, we don't trump our problems.

You just did. You just did. We tweaked them.

But I don't know, you were mentioning about, you go around places. I do too. But I personally feel more comfortable ministering from the local assembly where I associate with, because I know the needs.

And it seems as if it's, when you go to someplace else, you go with an exercise. You're trying to meet what might be needs, which you really don't know the needs as much. But when you're at your home assembly, there just seems to be a greater liberty in what I feel about.

And you have a sense of, well, you know what's going to need to be said, and so you do say it in the fear of God. Are you implying the same thing or not? I'm not clear about that. I find that there's a benefit sometimes to meet in anonymity.

So I've come here to America and I really don't know your local issues. And I can therefore speak my mind with complete impunity. One of the problems I find, it's maybe my personality, is I know all the issues in Mayfield and therefore have a peptic ulcer before I raise some of the difficult ones, because it's so difficult to speak about sensitive local issues.

I'm not saying it absolves me from the responsibility, but I actually find it, to be honest, easier to speak where I'm largely unknown. And I find it very difficult. It's maybe a confession time.

I find it difficult to speak at home. Aren't there men that come among you and you'd think they knew the problem, which they don't. So really, if we were guided by the Spirit, we should have a very exercise to have the right word, not just the correct word, but the right word for the place where we are.

Brother, we're veering away from... because we agreed that the elder is not necessarily a public man. The Word in Timothy 3, skilled in teaching, doesn't place him on the platform. It places him across the table.

He's able to handle the Word of God. When someone comes with the wrong doctrine, he can identify it right away and he knows how to correct it. When someone comes with a question, he's able to help.

It's a one-on-one basis, more than with a collective company. I think, though, our brother Bruce raised from 1 Timothy 5, those that labor in the Word and teaching, that there should be, as you mentioned, the teaching oversight, and there should be those in the oversight, not every one of them, but there should be those in the oversight who can publicly teach the doctrines of the Word of God. And could I make a soapbox, sorry.

Sit back sometime at the end of the year and think of the ministry given in your assembly. How many basic doctrines have been dealt with? I did that one year and I was shocked. The deity of Christ, the humanity of Christ, the impeccability of Christ.

We never touch those subjects. A 15-minute word of encouragement or a blast at the sisters or something, and that's what we get. But there should be a conscious effort made to teach basic doctrinal truths throughout the year.

Now, I'm not an example, but what we did is set up a four-year program. Year number one is things relative to the Godhead and the Word of God. Year two, truths of salvation.

Year three, truths of the assembly. Year four, truths of prophecy. And then recycle.

But just having a plan that you follow these important, basic, fundamental truths of the Word of God and convey them to another generation. Isn't that recognition? I remember reading that little book by Philip Keller on the shepherd looks at Psalm 23. And he mentioned that it's largely up to the shepherd to make sure that the sheep have good pasture.

And it's the shepherd's, you know, wisdom and careful handling of the way the sheep are pasturing in the various pastures that enables them to have good pasture on an ongoing basis. And I think we're often, as you say, too unaware. And again, maybe we struggle with this idea of how much human direction do we allow into this work.

But we should, I think we really should, take stock. And I think sometimes it comes out most sadly when somebody gets saved among us and they come into the, you know, among us in an existing assembly and we just presume they're going to pick up where we are and just get fed properly and not think of what they need. You brought up Fred Hill.

And it says remember them that have the rule. So in remembering him, I never remember him publicly preaching the Gospel or ministering the Word of God. Never once.

But he was sure that there were men there capable to do so. But you could ask him. I didn't go to breakfast with him because I lived too far away.

But every Sunday I wasn't invited someplace else. I was on his right hand. And no matter who was there, and I prayed with the familiar pronouns, Mr. Paisley could have been there.

And I'd be sweating cold sweat and he'd reach over and pat me on the hand and say, Richard, please. I was to give thanks for the food. But there wasn't a question.

You couldn't ask him. I mean, he'd give you, sometimes it wasn't a scriptural answer, but he'd tell you what he thought about it. And he was saying, he said to me, I guess, that if there isn't the ability in your own assembly to handle a problem or to bring ministry to bear, you're still responsible to see that those topics are covered.

Very good. So invite men who can cover them to make sure the Christians are fed. Richard has highlighted something that maybe we haven't touched on as far as one of the requirements.

Something that should mark an overseer is approachability. I mean, I know men who say, nobody will come to me. They know what I'll tell them.

That's the totally wrong, opposite attitude. The wisdom that is from above. James 3. Easily entreated, approachable.

Someone who's open. And never, you know, if you just blow them away, never ask me that kind of question again. Never question that again.

They'll never question it again. You've lost them. You know, they may say some outrageous things.

Have some outrageous questions. Listen. And give them the answer in a gracious way.

And be approachable to all the people of God. Could we... I'm sorry to move quickly. Just I want to get to watching for your souls, giving in account, and praying for you.

So, could we have some help now on verse 17 of Hebrews chapter 13. So, would that be an ongoing account? Certainly, some might think it would be the judgment seat of Christ, but I think there should be an ongoing account. Okay, our brother Lavery has suggested this is ongoing.

I would take it as the judgment seat of Christ, but there's no difficulty there. I think as part of my stewardship, I will give an account of the judgment seat of Christ for my stewardship and leadership. But certainly, in what way would I give an account now? Give me some help there.

Well, I think just keeping in touch with God and taking care of God's people. I had taken doing it with grief being the watching. You know, that it would be weeping over the people of God because of their waywardness and because of failure.

I mean, I'm inclined to think it's giving an account to God, but it does rather enlarge a view of the judgment seat, doesn't it? Because the classic teaching of the Bema is that it's you and you alone. But if we're right in thinking, and I think we are, that this is a final account being given of your stewardship, give an account of your stewardship, actually, one of the things you're going to have to talk to the Lord about or he's going to have to talk to you about are other people and how you handle them. And that is not usually how we think about the Bema.

We just think it's me and me alone. But this puts it in a kind of slightly wider context. I mean, one of the things that bothers me a little bit sometimes about what's said and talked about oversight is I think we sometimes we overplay the consensual aspect to oversight because we are so alarmed at giving the impression to the saints that we are dictatorial or control freaks.

And I think maybe in doing that we're just maybe overreacting to the spirit of the age which rebels against authority. I just want to put in a little plea that I think is founded in Scripture that although it is true that oversight is meant to be exercised on a compassionate and caring basis and although we don't lord it over the Lord's heritage we mustn't lose sight of the fact and I think it's scriptural that there is authority there and you have to do what they say. If you're a young man in the meeting here today and an overseer says to you this is what you have to do do it.

And the modern world is really uncomfortable with that kind of hard edged control but I think it is a definite stream of thought in the New Testament. I mean we went through this in our Bible reading not so long ago. Am I correct in recollecting that the word rule is the word that's translated governor further back in Luke's gospel he that is to be governor in Israel.

I think there is I mean maybe it's just me but I do think there is an authority element that we mustn't lose sight of. I think personally that we always have to balance the tendencies that we're moving towards and while we certainly do not want to have any impression of a dictatorship and all that implies and some men tend towards that concept of authority unfortunately but we have to recognize it and I believe it's in the same parallel as in the family the father carries that final responsibility for what happens. Psalm 23 thy rod and thy staff the rod as far as I recollect Sandy has served a different function from the staff but the two have got to be held in balance one with the other.

Very good. Just for the sake of young believers I think that is the tenth time our brother Alan mentioned something bothering him deeply. He really is a very happy believer.

Really. I don't want you thinking I think brother Sandy you covered it earlier Matthew 23 the scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat all that they bid you that observe and do do not after their works and you go on to a whole series of woes what the Lord is doing is he's preserving Moses' seat he's setting up Moses' seat and so in the elderhood he's given the elderhood a place and we must recognize it therefore there must be submission you may not like what you're told you may think that the the brethren who are telling you you may not think very much of them but it's the elderhood and we are to submit to the elderhood that's what it's all about. And I think also our brother would agree that there should be a scriptural reason given for why the particular behavior or issue is being raised rather than just a command with no scriptural basis.

Could you give an example of something you would command someone to do? Well nothing immediately springs to mind I tell you what, it bothers me what I have found in my little experience of life is there are some some sheep that are nightmares That's a horse, yeah Have you ever heard the expression herding cats? No Well, what it means is just an impossible you can herd sheep but have you ever herded cats? You know, they head off in every direction If you have food, you can My experience is that there are some that require firm handling And while you would never say I command you you would never use that kind of language there are some that require clearer direction than others and some that will disobey at the drop of a hat Now I grant you that they're rare and few and they're far between but they are nevertheless sometimes there and I think I think we just need to remember that overseers are human they have issues that are sometimes always impossible to handle and every now and again issues come along that are incredibly difficult to deal with and it needs to be remembered that they wield authority on behalf of God and they'll be answerable for it you know but they have authority Well, I was I was thinking I know most of the overseers in this part of the world and I can only think of one that's under 60 now I could be wrong but most of them are my age or plus or minus and I think that one of the things we look for we and most of us have probably been overseers for 20 to 40 years I think we sometimes expect the next the handing off to the next generation we expect them to be at our level of maturity that we are now not remembering what we were 30, 40 years ago but one of the things that we look for I think I'll speak for myself not that we command but when we we're trying to encourage a younger brother and we ask them to do we don't command them but we ask them to open the gospel meeting ask them to greet people ask them to speak to the children we ask them but we really expect them to respond in a positive way showing that they're interested in the people of God interested in developing their gifts and maybe we don't ask enough but I think there's resistance sometimes and we don't want to see that you don't want to force it on anybody you want willing people under good but I think what Alan is referring to is where there has been clear violation of the word of God how do we deal with that? and again it depends on the person you're dealing with and your relationship with them and I think all of that is vital Would you have that in Titus? Rebuke him sharply? Yeah, but a little different with teachers I think but I think what's been said is very helpful and I think we should take it into our consideration we do want to touch on the ministry of prayer or the laboring in prayer here at least implied they that watch for your souls I would take it that this is the idea of sleeplessness linked with time spent in prayer now this may surprise you it should be the norm for every believer in the assembly to pray for every other believer in the assembly but it is imperative that leaders do it imperative that is part of your ministry is praying for their preservation and as you pray for them strangely enough maybe this is not the experience of others as you pray for them you actually become a little bit more aware of some of their needs and you begin to have a sense of how to meet those needs so it's not just mentioning names and like a long list but praying for them actually gives you insight and help in terms of how am I going to approach this situation There's a lovely little line in the Believers "'Tis this that bids the hard thought disappear." It's a different connection but speaking for my own self I have felt literally within a moment of starting to pray that the temperature begins to cool I think it's good for us to let them know we're praying for them especially in specific things when they come to us and they mention something you say well I'll pray for you well you better do it and let them know that you're still praying it can't be a glib sort of thing and there's nothing wrong with asking believers you know what can we pray for for you you know I like to pray intelligently for you what is there that really we can carry to the throne of grace on your behalf even tweet them and let them know you're praying for them Any other comments on Hebrews 13 before we move on to Acts chapter 20 for the last section of the meeting It does mention doesn't it the great shepherd of the sheep right here at the end of this so it's so wonderful to think of the ends up with the Lord I've thought if he's the great shepherd of the sheep there may be another shepherd that the writer had in view there's once greater and I've thought it might be Moses who well you know brought the children of Israel out of the land that couldn't take them in but we have one that brought us and brought us out of the slave market of sin and he's going to bring us safely through and Jeremiah it speaks of Moses having brought them up out of and I think that's the background for what we have here very good Acts chapter 20 then unless any have a comment we'll move to that quickly and consider something there of the resources the word of God which is able and the person of God who is available this is very very similar to Joshua chapter 1 Moses my servant is dead I will be with thee and observe all things that are written in the book meditate therein day and night and so forth you have the word of God and you have my presence God says to Joshua the land is before you I won't forsake you you'll be prosperous have good success here are the two resources we have so Paul is going to bring them to these two resources as he leaves them and committing them to God and the word of his grace but before we get that far there are some other things in the chapter that are very very helpful and we don't want to dwell too long on them but in verses 17 to 21 we have what our brother Summers reminded us of Paul's consistency his consistency now there are there are features here that are vital for an overseer a shepherd to display there was transparency there was transparency you know now Paul uses that many times in the Thessalonian epistle ye know and then God knows what you can't know God knows but ye know there was transparency number one number two there was consistency from the first day until now there was impartiality now we should stay there for a minute Jew and Greek didn't matter Paul did not show favoritism a sure fire recipe for destroying an assembly show favoritism to your family that is a huge test and it is a difficult one to deal with but favoritism is a tremendous plague and to be impartial now that doesn't mean we don't respect someone for their life and recognize circumstances that's not showing partiality but it does mean as David did with Abiathar he was conscious of Abiathar's faithfulness to his father David and Solomon didn't deal with him as he did with Adonijah and with Joab but there needs to be impartiality to the very best of the ability and then likewise there was his visibility nothing secret publicly in house to house and so on a man marked by consistency so some thoughts on verses 17 to 21 before we move to the end of the chapter it's clear that there is a defined body of people called the elders because he says he called the elders of the church one of the legacies of exclusivism in Scotland is that there was a reluctance to acknowledge or identify overseers in an assembly and a lot of decisions were taken by gatherings of the assembly to meet and deal with certain matters but this to me is pretty clear authority for the proposition that even although the assembly had only been planted for what four or five years something along those lines maybe a bit less than that that still despite all of that a defined body of people who Paul could identify and they knew who they were had arisen it's interesting when in Titus when he sends Titus as his delegate to a point I think it says elders in every city which is an interesting thing that the word point or ordain is to point out with the hand and I take it what he's saying there is that Titus would have been able to identify by observation and therefore identify for the purposes of this epistle who it was that should fulfill that role it was in Crete I think so even though the work was at a very early stage it is interesting how God can bring men on to maturity very rapidly even though the work is of a new sort He says here from the first day verse 18 then he says I kept back verse 20 I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you I showed you I taught you publicly and then in verse 27 they declared all the counsel of God I think Paul went into that work with the realization there's going to be an assembly established here and from the very outset I have to prepare these people and you mentioned in your introduction that this is good for young people I think that's what Paul he was dealing with all new Christians at this time but he knew that it was imperative for him to lay the groundwork for which they can build upon it Yeah, that is a very interesting observation how Paul acted when he went to Corinth he chose not to use the philosophy and wisdom that marked him because he didn't want to fall into that trap when he went to Thessalonica he could see some that didn't want to work with their hands he worked with his hands so he was very sensitive to the people he was working amongst establishing by his example what was going to mark what was going to be an example for them in the years to come when the assembly was planted so just taking our brother Baker's observation when you deal with an unsaved friend from the very outset deal with them in the right way as far as your witness as far as your testimony as far as the lines you draw don't go to the bar with them so you can share the gospel the way you start out with them should be the way you want them to end up with you and live before them that way so Paul did that with every new area to which he went one of the things that you mentioned Sandy is that there is a kind of tension in the assemblies between our approach to the breaking of bread where it is as we are exercised and led by the spirit we give thanks in the prayer meeting as we are exercised and led by the spirit we pray in the bible reading as we are led and exercised we contribute then you try and apply that principle to teaching now one of the I, like you, took a little note over the space of nearly a year of what we had heard in Mayfield in ministry and it was very piecemeal as you pointed out great swathes of truth never touched is this maybe the answer to it? Paul evidently must have appreciated that it was the whole council that needed to be narrated and I don't think you could do that without keeping a weary eye on what it was that the assembly was hearing so there is, I think alongside our wish to acknowledge the liberty of the spirit to move side by side with that I don't think it's inconsistent with the spirit's leading to try and do it in a systematic way and in an organized way although I noticed that it kept back nothing that was profitable to you so never let this text become a proof text for just giving the saints a good hammering about your pet hobby horse you've got to be satisfied that it's profitable to them before you engage in it so just as a general comment on this section Paul's description of his own ministry and his consistency here is a golden example of what an elder should be, isn't it? and every point that he makes here we've covered most of them already in the discussion regarding elders Paul was functioning in that as you said 1st Thessalonians 2 a mother nursing her children a father charging, exhorting and comforting he was acting in that capacity until God raised up men so yes he was. We should touch on just so we don't look like we're contradicting yesterday that he taught from house to house now this is different than sequestering a group of Christians in your home and having a little house meeting and not going to prayer meeting this is shepherd work this is what Tom, you do, right? you do this all the time when you visit new converts and you do it as well and I'm sure William does it it's what's done in the home over the breakfast table and a bible open and just helping them see truth so this is not contradicting what we were speaking about yesterday at all this is shepherd work that's being done he didn't teach differently either publicly and house to house I was thinking how seriously Paul seriously took this he walked for 20 miles didn't he? likely to be in the Lord's presence to know what to really say to these people as far as he was concerned it might be his last opportunity to talk to them it's really interesting that he didn't go to Ephesus to speak to these overseers, he bypassed Ephesus and then after having gotten to Miletus he sent back word got to Miletus, he sent back word to Ephesus I just wonder if there were things he needed to say to the overseers and them and them alone and he didn't want it to be done in their own native environment because as we learn a little bit further down he knew that I take it out of your own selves means the overseeing group and I think that is why 1 Timothy 3 is in our Bible Ephesus is an assembly that did well, the oversight it would appear collapsed to a large extent, that is why you've got 1 Timothy 3 because it's a corrective ministry I think in 1 Timothy 3 in light of the failure of the oversight earlier on and then remarkably enough you've got another collapse again that is dealt with in Revelation 2 where another error has crept in and infiltrated the assembly so if you come to Winnipeg you've heard things about it and you're not happy it would be wrong for you to stand on the platform and speak about it it would be correct for you to ask for a meeting with the elders and discuss it would that be right? I'm not an apostle sadly but what I'm saying it's far better to privately deal with the elders if you have a big issue you feel I've got to get this dealt with but I've heard it standing up on the platform, public issues being publicly dealt with that have never been brought before the elders Our brother has asked about the concept of the assembly not being a democracy so it kind of brings before us the two extremes the dictatorship that we were reminded of should not exist but also not a democracy not a matter of voting and the majority wins theoretically it's a theocracy the word of God controlling through those men who are responsible to handle it we go back to I think what was mentioned yesterday by brother William, Genesis 28 this is the gate of heaven now that's not the idea this is the closest place or the entrance this is where administration, this is where authority this is where decisions are made in the gate, Lot, Abraham all those men, Boaz sat in the gate to make a decision so that it is the place where administration and authority is carried out not in a dictatorial way but according to the word of God through those that have that responsibility and administered then to the assembly so not a democracy there is a hierarchy of authority if you will, if you want to call it that that God has instituted and it really is, I think I forget if it was Alan who mentioned yesterday the assembly really is a preview of a world to come and this is where God's administration is recognized that's going to be what marks the earth in a coming day and this is where it should be administered upon earth and I'm not speaking of other places but if there is any place on earth that should be a place where God is administering through His word it should be a local company of believers I'd like to say something that has been kind of wanting to put out when there is like in a home between parents, mother and father there is a disagreement it's not wise to tell the children our God the children size up with mom or size up with the kids it's not wise that the children know what the disagreement is I believe the same thing in the assembly among elders, it's not wise because there will be times when there are disagreements and that's the reason why the plurality, it's good, it's healthy but it's not wise that the flock knows about the disagreement would you agree with that? Yes, but maybe I'm just drawing from personal experience, there are times when the assembly is waiting for a decision and the oversight is just not sure about it I would think it would be really in a sense you're making yourself vulnerable but I think it's actually a sign that's healthy to tell the assembly would you please pray for us we are struggling with this decision and we really would like the assembly to make it a matter of prayer that God will give us guidance about what to do in this situation I remember as a young man seeing one elder saying publicly giving little cuts and things about what his point was and the other one coming along and cutting the other one down there's no need to air where the differences are, just that we're trying to make a decision, we're finding it difficult and we would like the assembly to make it a special matter of prayer this week that God will guide us once a decision is made, it should come this is the mind of the elders I suppose the only qualification we should make is that we observed yesterday that the receiving and the putting away is not for the oversight so there is that general qualification that there are some things that are decisions for the assembly I mean I have occasionally heard of a situation where the oversight were happy to receive after having interviewed, went to the assembly and an objection was raised and even though the elders weren't satisfied that it was a very good reason that was being advanced, that the unity of the assembly was their primary responsibility and I think one thing I have learned in my little life is even though you're absolutely convinced that something is right if you go on ahead and do it and you know you're going to divide the meeting don't do it don't do it aren't there things that we make decisions on that aren't that critical and like with us there's just two of us so but that it's not critical I may not agree and my brother might think otherwise but it's not that critical fine I'll just go along with it but when it comes to reception and discipline I believe it has to be total unanimity or don't do it because if there's not it will be found out by the saints and that will be divisive I agree with that, just experience again Rich I've once been in a situation where there was a dissenting voice but that individual was so difficult to deal with had very little testimony in the meeting, was an irregular attender that the assembly and the oversight wasn't really an overseer we felt able to override that individual nobody holds a casting vote on this matter the golden share, nobody's got that but just set against that I bear the scars on my soul of growing up in a meeting where a decision was taken to receive a couple with issues in their past and the result of that is we lost people that were vital to the meeting they walked out and it was well known that that would happen if they were received and my simple deduction as a boy back then was don't receive because of the problems you're going to create because your primary obligation is to keep the flock together move on if we can we have about 12 minutes left just to the end of the chapter, verses 28 on we have that which is personal take heed therefore unto yourselves that which is pastoral be the flock, that which is precious be purchased with his own blood that which is problematic and then the preventative ministry that is necessary to preserve from this so, the personal, the pastoral the precious, can we have some comment on what we have in these verses perhaps an expression that Paul uses in verse 19 would fit with taking heed to yourselves and that is when he says in verse 19 serving the Lord with all humility of mind one of the one of the susceptibilities that anyone has who comes into a place of leadership is that we may have started out with humility but it's easy to be overtaken by pride and there are many who start out humbly serving the Lord who end up serving themselves in that position of authority and so the taking heed to yourselves would certainly include that primary responsibility that we acknowledge the Lord in all things and that he is the center of our life and our service this would be I would take it collectively certainly individual but I would think maybe he's even using this collectively take heed to yourselves collectively make sure that you're carrying out your responsibility to the flock and feeding the flock of God becomes the responsibility of the oversight as we've mentioned already to be sure that the assembly is being fed feeding the flock, providing food for them, pastures for them to enjoy and he then reminds us of how precious and really if you look at all of the places where the responsibility of oversight is given, each of them give a different incentive for the work that's being done. Here you could say it's as well the fact of the dangers but I would think the preciousness of the flock becomes the great incentive.

I have to constantly remind myself of this. One of the most powerful things I learned as a young lad reading my Bible was the truth of 1 Corinthians 8 shall the weak brother perish for whom Christ died and what that does is even though you have somebody that is difficult to handle, you must always give them the dignity of remembering them that in God's wisdom he saved them he could have done something entirely different he could have gone another way but God saw fit to bring them into the kingdom and we give them the dignity that God gives them and so in your dealings with the saints, I know sometimes it's exasperating I know sometimes you're at the end of your tether but you must always remember that whoever you're dealing with is somebody that's been bought with the blood of Christ and that gives them a status that they will never lose God saves some strange characters you bitch hey that's why the spirit chooses spiritual men men are able to discern and know the mind of the Lord so here then again just to underline we're looking at the value of an assembly to God purchased with the blood of his own you've got the value of the assembly to God in the lampstand the golden lampstand with all of its preciousness before God so the value of an assembly is where we're ending today we've been looking at the assembly through the weekend just how precious an assembly is to God and as a result of that then those that feed the flock should remember as our brother Alan has reminded us of just how valuable the assembly is to God and he mentions here as well that there are problems to be faced grievous wolves entering in among yourselves and so on and I have given a preventive ministry by the space of three years I have ceased not to warn you night and day with tears interesting to see all the things Paul did with tears he wrote with tears he worked with tears he warned with tears and so on he was a soft, a gentle man some of his writings you think he must have been a very hard or steer man but Paul's heart broke for the people of God and that's a vital thing for a leader is to have a heart that weeps for the people of God for younger believers would you just remark about with his own blood just a clarification on the translation or the wording here which he purchased with the blood of his own would be a better translation the blood of his own son we were reminded in ministry by one of our brethren about the need for care in our words we don't say that God died for us we do say the man on the cross who died for us was God and it was the Lord Jesus Christ who died so the blood of his own is the blood of his own son and there's no apostolic succession some would claim as grievous wolves enter in so what's the implication of that no apostolic succession who is now responsible for the welfare of this assembly the elders the elders just a point of clarification because it is interesting I take it that statement there verse 29 grievous wolves enter in I take it that must be false teachers coming from elsewhere infiltrating the flock but then in contrast to what enters in you don't say among you I take it that is the assembly but then he narrows it down a little bit not sparing the flock also of your own selves now while strictly speaking that might be capable of meaning the Ephesian church as a whole when it's set in contrast to among you into which the wolves have entered I think what he's saying is out of the oversight shall men arise now that's a serious thing Sandy because you know to think that out of the very people that God has charged with responsibility to look after the flock out of that body that the wolves would arise I mean I've said it before I'll just say it again it puts 1 Timothy 3 in a completely different light because that is Ephesian elders that are being focused on there and that is why I wonder whether maybe actually if you look at the qualifications of 1 Timothy 3 with this in mind you can see that selflessness is the key so maybe the issue was that amongst the oversight there were people who just lacked the basic shepherd care that was necessary to enable them to consistently perform the function of overseers until they were taken home what our brother Alan has raised we haven't even touched this but it's worth underlining that is care for the assembly platform the oversight is responsible for the platform of an assembly or at a conference the oversight of this assembly is responsible for what is taught and have every right to stop it if something unscriptural is being taught so he says take heed grievous wolves will enter in make sure that you control what is said from that platform and I would take it also beyond the platform the undertone of teaching that sometimes occurs quietly in corners just the care of the flock in terms of what teaching is brought in had you thought that verse 29 was the grievous wolves would spring up from the elders no that part he's saying from outside the next verse of your own selves there's no strict speaking in grammar or no lexical consideration requires the own selves to be anything other than the Ephesian church but I think it's the context that's the critical thing here because grievous wolves entering among you and I take it that must mean amongst the Ephesian assembly but then he narrows it a bit of your own selves he's in the company of the elders looking them in the face so the natural way to read that is he's not talking about false men arising out of the assembly but actually from the oversight I think you would say that that's part of the problem in Corinth isn't it when they said I am of Paul I'm of Apollos and so on it wasn't merely that they were following other men leaders apostles and so on but that men from within the assembly were taking party status Paul seems to have said I have applied this to Apollos and myself. Yeah which is why I would take it Paul never addresses the elders in the epistle.

They were the problem. They couldn't solve they were part of the problem so he's really dealing at a whole different level okay I think we probably should end now and just mention in closing what Paul commends the oversight to. God and the word of his grace is what every single one of us have as well that we can be in the good of.

The God who is available and the word of God with all of its ability to bless. Thank you all for your help.